Prior MFR: Initial Impressions

Brian wrote:
"Mike T" wrote in message
newsyDCd.25937$tG3.20774@trnddc02...


Anyhow, I'd be willing to bet that in 100 more riding days if you
were to
get on a Wide you might think it is more versatile than you do now.

Mike T

Heheh, ya that too. You probably have hundreds more riding days
under your
belt than I do. I have a feeling if I went boarding with you, you'd
make me
look like a complete newbie. For me, 100 riding days is several
seasons.

I also think I might have been happier on a Wide 158 instead of the
161.
The MFR 162, though, feels just right. I seem to recall effective
edge
lengths being roughly equivalent on the Wide 158 and the MFR 162.

Brian.

Well Mike often gets a jealous-inducing number of days on the slopes.
Although you can't have it both ways Mike... either the Donek Freeride
boards are good for beginners (which I believe you used to mention and
I disagree with) or it requires a more advanced rider (with 100+ days
under the belt) to properly use it. That being said, I'm interested in
what the Twin or the Phoenix rides like.

I have to agree that while I have taken the Incline in the
park/pipe/rails/moguls... it is definitely very carving oriented. It
takes a bit more input to get it to make nice tight turns, which isn't
too hard on the groomers, but riding it through powder in the trees is
a serious burnout. This caused me to get a Burton Fish 156MD for tree
powder (which turned out to be a great investment this last weekend).
I've also noticed the Incline doesn't like centered stances that much
and so it is a little awkward for riding switch on jumps and moguls.
And of course there is my personal pet-peeve about boot drag. It seems
like it's only me... but I have size 8 boots, with a huge riser plate
and I still get drag when I tip the board past 70 degrees and it kind
of ruins the hard tight carving sensation for me. I can increase my
angles and ride it alpine style... but I like the mellow freestyle
ankle flexing carving and I'm not very solid/comfortable taking off
bigger jumps when I'm riding like 36/30 or even 24/9 angles and end up
drifting a little bit, especially on spins. I just bought even longer
screws from my Catek Freerides, so maybe that will help solve the
problem finally.

I am looking for a slightly damper, more mellow board that is more
turny (softer and shorter sidecut I guess) than my Donek Incline 155
and am interested checking out a Prior MFR or AMF. Apparently Prior are
demo'ing boards at Kirkwood on the 29th and I hope to try out some
boards.

Well Mike often gets a jealous-inducing number of days on the slopes.
Although you can't have it both ways Mike... either the Donek Freeride
boards are good for beginners (which I believe you used to mention and
I disagree with) or it requires a more advanced rider (with 100+ days
under the belt) to properly use it. That being said, I'm interested in
what the Twin or the Phoenix rides like.

I have indeed softened my opinion somewhat that it is a good choice fir
beginners.

I still maintain that, if a beginner gets on an Incline/Wide/Sasquatch, they
will be encouraged to learn a carving-oriented style which will in general
lead to becoming a better rider faster. But I agree, that's not a good
learning approach for many.

I've also noticed the Incline doesn't like centered stances that much
and so it is a little awkward for riding switch on jumps and moguls.

Can you elaborate?

On 4 Jan 2005 08:41:29 -0800, "Mark.Andersen"
wrote:

Enjoy the snow! I was up this weekend and the only time I've ridden
better snow was out of a heli.

heh. That was what my mate Iain said after a run down The Wave at
Kirkwood - "That was like a heli run"
--
Champ

So I started out on a Wide about the same time as Brian, as I recall.

I definately agree that, for a beginner, the board is a little bit
challanging. It requires pretty emphatic input to make tight, slow
speed skidded turns, because the tail really doesn't like to let go.
Compared that to the average burton say, where the tail can swish
around without a moments thought.

That said, you can and will get used to it, and I personally think it
teaches you a very solid technique. Kicking your back foot around isn't
sufficient to make tight turns, you have to learn solid unweighting and
weight shifting. By the time I switched to hardboots last season, I was
pretty comfortible on my wide, including steepish trees, etc. Some
slopes were still definatley challanging for me, like a fairly steep
tree chute of sorts here named absolute magnitude. But I was quite
happy to cruise it through trees on slopes around the 30-45 degree
mark, like in the NW lift area of Mt. Bachelor.

MikeT can chime in with weither I'm deluding myself or not... but my
basic point is: a determined beginner can and will learn how to use
that board just fine, and in some ways, may be better off, as it forces
a very solid technique. In fact, the only thing I don't think it taught
me was shoulder angulation.

But all that said, it's definately more work, so something that feels
more burton, or something out of donek's more freeride/freestyle
oriented new lines might be a better choice.

Ohh, and detuning the last few cm of the edge near the tail has a
pretty dramatic impact on how swishy the tail is... so there's
compramises to be made as well.

But I was quite
happy to cruise it through trees on slopes around the 30-45 degree
mark, like in the NW lift area of Mt. Bachelor.

MikeT can chime in with weither I'm deluding myself or not...

I would guess the tress on Bachelor's NW slope are on a 30 degree pitch or
less and Absolute Magnitude is just a hair over 30... but that's about the
only thing I would add. No delusions here. I've ridden with Jason for a
season and a half and would agree with him that his board has encouraged him
to develop solid technique quickly.

But all that said, it's definately more work, so something that feels
more burton, or something out of donek's more freeride/freestyle
oriented new lines might be a better choice.

Sure - depending on what you are looking for.

I would reiterate that I do not think the Incline/Wide/Sasquatch will "kick
a new rider's butt" so much as they will coerce a new rider into developing
"crisp" technique. I wish I had gotten on one much earlier in my
snowboarding life. However hindsight is 20/20, I would have concentrated on
technique earlier as well too if I could do it over again... and not on
running the steepest slopes that I could!

Ohh, and detuning the last few cm of the edge near the tail has a
pretty dramatic impact on how swishy the tail is... so there's
compramises to be made as well.

Yep... in my case simple applying a base edge bevel the whole length made a
dramatic difference. IMHO, this is more an artifact of the fact that most
boards ship with a base and side bevel of 1 degree, where Donek ships with
no bevels. You can add bevel but not take it away (without removing a lot
of edge metal) so from that standpoint I think it makes sense.

However if I were to order a Donek as a gift for someone, I would probably
ask about shipping it 1/.5...

Mike T

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 18:48:46 GMT, "Mike T"
wrote:

I would reiterate that I do not think the Incline/Wide/Sasquatch will "kick
a new rider's butt" so much as they will coerce a new rider into developing
"crisp" technique.

The Incline was my first board (other than rentals) and I don't regret
it, even though it may have been responsible for a few more dazzling
spills the first couple of seasons.

Yep... in my case simple applying a base edge bevel the whole length made a
dramatic difference.

This may have been the key for me as well. I think I did this
following my first season with the board. Now that I think about it,
it was probably this more than detuning the edges that made the board
more forgiving on the flats. It makes sense that it would be a bit
less grabby.

I continue to use a 1/1 bevel and detune the edges, and this works for
what I like to do. If I were carving more I might keep the edges
tuned, but that's not a priority for me right now.

-- Robert

wrote:
MikeT can chime in with weither I'm deluding myself or not... but my
basic point is: a determined beginner can and will learn how to use
that board just fine, and in some ways, may be better off, as it forces
a very solid technique. In fact, the only thing I don't think it taught
me was shoulder angulation.


I consider myself a "determined beginner" even though I now use
midwestern black diamond runs (and not by sideslipping). I have one
solid season of boarding experience on midwestern hills and one trip to
A-Basin. Keep in mind that I'm 49, had no prior ski experience before
starting to board, and I do not use terrain parks (rails, pipes).

In my opinion, my boarding significantly improved after switching to a
Donek Wide 161 from a wide board of a different brand. There was an
immediate improvement with ice. There's a lot of ice on midwestern hills
and the old board would slide out from under me on ice. At first I
figured the problem was me, but that problem immediately stopped after
switching to my Donek. I now glide over ice without worry. My balance,
speed and technique have improved now that I don't worry about falling.

Cross a rut and the old board would bounce and throw me off balance.
That also immediately changed when I started using my Donek. Again, my
balance, speed and technique have improved now that I don't worry about
falling.

When I first used my Donek it seemed unweildly at low speed and I
wondered if I'd done the right thing by buying it since our hills are
short. But I've learned to manage it. If I move my body the right way
the board goes where I want it to go. My confidence has soared and I
cover terrain that I would never have considered last year with the old
board.

I've only used two boards (a rental I used twice doesn't count) so my
experience is limited. I cannot say if my Donek is a great board or if
my old board was just really lame.

I plan to demo a Prior when I'm in Whistler next month just because
that's where it is made.

Dean

lonerider wrote:

Well Mike often gets a jealous-inducing number of days on the slopes.
Although you can't have it both ways Mike... either the Donek
Freeride
boards are good for beginners (which I believe you used to mention
and
I disagree with) or it requires a more advanced rider (with 100+ days
under the belt) to properly use it. That being said, I'm interested
in
what the Twin or the Phoenix rides like.

Right. I agree. I don't consider the Donek a beginner board or as an
ideal training tool for lesser riders, personally. But then, if given
the choice between a begineer level foam core board such as a rental
and the Donek, most people right down to the advanced beginner will
probably take the Donek. But there is so much else in between. There
is a full gamet of flexible, moderately stiff, and stiff freeride
boards out there that will serve riders well for years. And I would
personally reconsider a Donek after my days on the snow have increased
manyfold because that is how I view the board... A board for already
very good riders who need more out of a board than most other boards
can provide. But right now, it's a little hard to imagine progressing
beyond the capabilities of my Prior any time soon or at all. We will
see.

But still, it is a personal preference issue in the end. I like to do
some laid back riding here and there, and I like push myself too. I
like (trying) to navigate bumps, trees, etc. and I like gliding down
the groomers. The Donek wanted to go fast all the time, but in many of
these situations I didn't. That's where the struggle came in. The
Prior, on the otherhand, will go fast and stay steady, but it doesn't
"want" to go fast. That's about the best I can explain it. One thing
for sure is that these boards should definitely be demoed in advance,
and I never had the opportunity to do so. In hindsight, I may well
have been riding on a Donek that wasn't sized quite right. It sure
would be interesting to feel a Wide 158.

Brian.

Mike T wrote:

I still maintain that, if a beginner gets on an
Incline/Wide/Sasquatch, they
will be encouraged to learn a carving-oriented style which will in
general
lead to becoming a better rider faster. But I agree, that's not a
good
learning approach for many.

That is probably true... it would require an aggressive beginner, who
is willing to crash a few extra times when the Donek "reminds" them not
to skid too much (as mentioned 1* base bevel helps tremendously). On
the flipside, I am beginning to think that extreme edgehold can also
become a crutch for some people as they rely on the board too much to
carve an edge for them and expect to be able to carve *all* the time.
It is true that having better edgehold will give you more confidence
and allow beginner to work on other technique issues... but that just
kind of delays the lesson in edge pressure on variable snow condition.
Maybe it's just an unfounded worry.

I've also noticed the Incline doesn't like centered stances that
much
and so it is a little awkward for riding switch on jumps and
moguls.

Can you elaborate?

Well, it might have been because of the settings on my Cateks (neg.
cant) but I managed overpower/augur the nose when I set the bindings to
be centered with the board (not the inserts). I think it also
interfere's with the Donek's shock-absorbing nose a little bit. When
riding switch, the tail is super stiff and you will get bounced around
in cruddy snow like at the bottom of jumps or in moguls.

--Arvin

It is true that having better edgehold will give you more confidence
and allow beginner to work on other technique issues... but that just
kind of delays the lesson in edge pressure on variable snow condition.
Maybe it's just an unfounded worry.

I dunno, you're still going to have to learn how to feather edge pressure on
variable snow. Even longer GS boards which have legendary edge hold don't
negate that issue!

I've also noticed the Incline doesn't like centered stances that
much
and so it is a little awkward for riding switch on jumps and
moguls.

Can you elaborate?

Well, it might have been because of the settings on my Cateks (neg.
cant) but I managed overpower/augur the nose when I set the bindings to
be centered with the board (not the inserts). I think it also
interfere's with the Donek's shock-absorbing nose a little bit. When
riding switch, the tail is super stiff and you will get bounced around
in cruddy snow like at the bottom of jumps or in moguls.

OK, centered on the midpoint of the total board length, rather than centered
about the waist... never tried that on my Wide. I never move my bindings on
that thing, always at 19.25" centered on the inserts which I believe is also
centered about the waist, or narrowest part of the board...

Mike T