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Proper way to teach snowboarders?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 27th 04, 03:27 PM
Heather
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Default Proper way to teach snowboarders?

Hello everybody.

This is my first post here so please go gentle!

Since first learning to snowboard 6 years ago, I have gone
boarding with friends every winter. Each year, there will be
a couple of new members in the group who have never boarded
before. We always send these beginners on a 2-hour group or
private lesson since I truly believe it is important to
learn the basics properly.

What has surprised me though is just how different the
teaching techniques are, even between teachers of the same
school.

For example, the first thing that one teacher taught my
sister was to strap the front foot into the board, push off
with the rear foot and then slide straight downhill in a
straight line with the rear foot loose on the board. Even
though it was only a slight incline, this petrified me
(probably more so than my sister !). Perhaps it is just me
but I believe that I would be far more inclined to get
a serious leg and knee twisting injury attempting to go
downhill with one foot in the board than anything else.

Other teachers I've seen have taught people just to get
used to pushing the board along on the flat with one
foot in the board first. Then they move onto sliding
side to side like a pendulum before attempting the turns.

Is it normal for there to be such discrepancy in the
way that people teach ?

For what it's worth, when I was learning my instructor
taught me in the following order,

1. Basics - how to use & adjust the bindings, working
out if I am goofy or regular stance, dangers of a
runaway board and how to avoid it.
2. On a slight incline and with only the front foot strapped
in the board, how to pendulum down the slope going
left then right but always facing downhill. At first
he held my hands to support me as I got used to the
feel of the heel edge and balance.
3. Then with both feet strapped in, I did the pendulum
all the way down. This was actually much easier.
4. Then we worked on toe edge. It's so long ago that
I can't remember if I had only one foot in the board
at this stage.
5. Toe turns. I'm pretty darned sure that I never even
attempted that with just one foot in the board!
6. Heel turns. I just remember that being awful painful.

After my lesson I practiced for the rest of the day and
was semi-competent within a couple of days. However I did
incur some painful injuries and all of my friends were
surprised that I had never been taught "how to fall
properly".

So, I'm just wondering if somebody could put some structure
to this learning experience ?

Thank you very much,

Heather

ps. the reason I'm asking is that very often I end up
helping the beginners after their lessons, just with
tips like bending knees and weight forward.
I love the satisfaction of helping them and one day
would like to take a course to teach them (not that
I wish to pursue it as a career, though I am sure
it is very rewarding) but in the meantime it would
help to know the order in which they should have
learned things. It will also put my mind at rest
about the variety of teaching methods.

Ads
  #2  
Old December 28th 04, 07:43 PM
root
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

We took my brother to snowbird a couple of weeks for his first day
snowboarding...

By the end of the day he did one black in minera basin. He took the 15
minutes of listen to your brother, 6 hours of try to do what he is doing
approach.

"Heather" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello everybody.

This is my first post here so please go gentle!

Since first learning to snowboard 6 years ago, I have gone
boarding with friends every winter. Each year, there will be
a couple of new members in the group who have never boarded
before. We always send these beginners on a 2-hour group or
private lesson since I truly believe it is important to
learn the basics properly.

What has surprised me though is just how different the
teaching techniques are, even between teachers of the same
school.

For example, the first thing that one teacher taught my
sister was to strap the front foot into the board, push off
with the rear foot and then slide straight downhill in a
straight line with the rear foot loose on the board. Even
though it was only a slight incline, this petrified me
(probably more so than my sister !). Perhaps it is just me
but I believe that I would be far more inclined to get
a serious leg and knee twisting injury attempting to go
downhill with one foot in the board than anything else.

Other teachers I've seen have taught people just to get
used to pushing the board along on the flat with one
foot in the board first. Then they move onto sliding
side to side like a pendulum before attempting the turns.

Is it normal for there to be such discrepancy in the
way that people teach ?

For what it's worth, when I was learning my instructor
taught me in the following order,

1. Basics - how to use & adjust the bindings, working
out if I am goofy or regular stance, dangers of a
runaway board and how to avoid it.
2. On a slight incline and with only the front foot strapped
in the board, how to pendulum down the slope going
left then right but always facing downhill. At first
he held my hands to support me as I got used to the
feel of the heel edge and balance.
3. Then with both feet strapped in, I did the pendulum
all the way down. This was actually much easier.
4. Then we worked on toe edge. It's so long ago that
I can't remember if I had only one foot in the board
at this stage.
5. Toe turns. I'm pretty darned sure that I never even
attempted that with just one foot in the board!
6. Heel turns. I just remember that being awful painful.

After my lesson I practiced for the rest of the day and
was semi-competent within a couple of days. However I did
incur some painful injuries and all of my friends were
surprised that I had never been taught "how to fall
properly".

So, I'm just wondering if somebody could put some structure
to this learning experience ?

Thank you very much,

Heather

ps. the reason I'm asking is that very often I end up
helping the beginners after their lessons, just with
tips like bending knees and weight forward.
I love the satisfaction of helping them and one day
would like to take a course to teach them (not that
I wish to pursue it as a career, though I am sure
it is very rewarding) but in the meantime it would
help to know the order in which they should have
learned things. It will also put my mind at rest
about the variety of teaching methods.



  #3  
Old December 29th 04, 11:06 AM
Andy Turner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 27 Dec 2004 07:27:31 -0800, "Heather"
wrote:

Hello everybody.

This is my first post here so please go gentle!

Since first learning to snowboard 6 years ago, I have gone
boarding with friends every winter. Each year, there will be
a couple of new members in the group who have never boarded
before. We always send these beginners on a 2-hour group or
private lesson since I truly believe it is important to
learn the basics properly.

What has surprised me though is just how different the
teaching techniques are, even between teachers of the same
school.


FWIW, I believe that teaching falling-leaf is a *bad* way to learn. It
encourages you to go down slopes that you haven't a chance of getting
a turn in on, and 'leafing' all the way down, catching edges as you
go. Best to get on a very gentle slope and learn those turns from the
beginning. I honestly think I'm a year behind where I might be because
I was taught falling leaf and then told "now you can get down *any*
mountain". I wasted a year doing exactly that rather than learning to
snowboard.


andyt

  #4  
Old December 30th 04, 11:13 AM
Heather
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Other than step 2 (which I think could end in some really horrible
falling on the coccyx on the flat) I think that this is an approach
very similar to how I learned and what I would recommend for others.

Step 6 sounds like a good idea and I have a feeling that that must have
been how I was introduced to turning, if this is what they call a
"J-turn". Actually keeping the person balanced upright whilst they
turn the board downhill is probably the tricky bit.
Thank you for the helpful reply,

Heather

  #5  
Old December 30th 04, 02:50 PM
Heather
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sorry, I did not make it clear that my earlier post was with respect to
Baka Dasai's post. Thank you.

  #6  
Old December 30th 04, 05:06 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


FWIW, I believe that teaching falling-leaf is a *bad* way to learn.

It

I don't mean to be rude, but I think this is totally wrong. The problem
you had was not that you knew falling leaf, it's that you were
unwilling to try anything beyond it.

I think it's far better that beginners know a way to get down slopes to
steep for them... I mean, what's the alternative, we teach them to
point nose down the fall line and link turns from the beginning, and
they don't know how to sideslip? So the next time I'm on a stepish run
that beginners tend to get onto by mistake I get blased over by some
fool whose pointed down the fall line and then freaked out because he's
going to fast for his comfort level? Not a good idea in my book.

  #7  
Old December 30th 04, 06:02 PM
Heather
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

FWIW, I believe that teaching falling-leaf is a *bad* way to learn.

I don't mean to be rude, but I think this is totally wrong.


I have to agree here with Jason. There were so many times
when I was learning that I just had to use the leaf to get down
some icy steep parts of an otherwise okay run.

People will always find themselves in a situation a bit beyond
their skill levels when they are learning and it's really assuring
to know that should you find yourself out of your depth you
can still make it down. If anything, it gives you confidence to
push yourself and attempt more.

Heather.

  #8  
Old December 30th 04, 06:41 PM
Jason G
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Posts: n/a
Default

In article .com, Heather
says...

4. Then we worked on toe edge. It's so long ago that
I can't remember if I had only one foot in the board
at this stage.
5. Toe turns. I'm pretty darned sure that I never even
attempted that with just one foot in the board!


I've been boarding for several years and I wouldn't try that NOW. I can't
imagine trying to turn unstrapped as a beginner. During my lesson, the only
thing we did unstrapped was skating and lift practice.

Heck, I still hate the short ride after getting off the lift, with my back foot
unhooked. Feels all squirrely and hard to steer and stop.


--
Jason G
"This isn't a matter of being tolerant;
it's a matter of being sane." --REP, a.s.c.
  #9  
Old January 3rd 05, 09:20 PM
Andy Turner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 30 Dec 2004 09:06:31 -0800, wrote:


FWIW, I believe that teaching falling-leaf is a *bad* way to learn.

It

I don't mean to be rude, but I think this is totally wrong. The problem
you had was not that you knew falling leaf, it's that you were
unwilling to try anything beyond it.


LOL! And how do you know this? How do you know what I did? How
patronising.

Oh believe me I tried. And I fell. And I tried. And I fell. And I
tried. And I fell. And then I leafed a bit more.. then I leafed most
of the way. I got tired of falling.

This was all because I believed I was on the right kinds of slopes to
learn because I could leaf down them. I was told this, but it was
totally wrong. When you're on a steep slope, the time you have when
attempting a turn before falling is far shorter than if you're on a
gentle incline. Remember that this is well before you have any
appropriate muscle memory and everything is coming from conscious
thought and recall. On a gentle slope, you have so much more time to
experiment with the way you're leaning into the turn without that
split second fear that you're hurtling down the mountain already and
you fall.

Learning a technique that gets you down any slope of mountain simply
encourages you up them in the first place. That's no way to learn. You
have to stay on the gentle slopes and learn to turn properly. When I
see boarders leafing down mountains never once attempting a turn (and
catching edges as they go), I feel like telling them to get off the
slope, get back to a gentle slope and there they will find learning to
turn far easier - and far less painful.


I think it's far better that beginners know a way to get down slopes to
steep for them... I mean, what's the alternative, we teach them to
point nose down the fall line and link turns from the beginning, and
they don't know how to sideslip?


Nope, the alternative is to stay off slopes that are "too steep for
them" (the clue being in your description!). Learn on slopes that are
appropriate to your skills and progress properly.


So the next time I'm on a stepish run
that beginners tend to get onto by mistake I get blased over by some
fool whose pointed down the fall line and then freaked out because he's
going to fast for his comfort level? Not a good idea in my book.


Exactly - which is why they tend to falling leaf all the way down and
learn nothing. Better that they stay off that slope and spend their
time learning to turn on a gentle slope. I believe that if you learn
to turn properly, the art of falling leaf gets learnt implicitly
anyway.


andyt

  #10  
Old January 3rd 05, 10:00 PM
Mike T
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Posts: n/a
Default

-snip-

This was all because I believed I was on the right kinds of slopes to
learn because I could leaf down them.


-snip-

Andy,

I would agree with you that "just because you can leaf down a slop doesn't
mean you can make turns down it". However I strongly agree with those who
say one *should* know how to leaf down a slope, *just in case you need to*.
The Falling Leaf is one of those things to keep in your back pocket for when
you really need it. and when you do need it, yes that is your signal that
you are beyond your current abilities. So yeah, maybe it's go back to a
gentler slope and work on your skills more. Or, maybe you just need to
stop in the middle of the hill and try starting up again. Everyone is
different and everyone has their own learning curve not to mention tolerance
for banging themselves up in the process.

Even after 300 - 400 riding days I *still* find the need to falling leaf now
and again. For example:

- finding myself on a very steep section in tight trees. I just leafed my
way to the bottom of that section and then starting riding again.

- someone in front of me on a bump run wipes out and is clearly injured. I
leaf around them... ask them if they need ski patrol... and then ride like
the wind to the bottom and have the liftie call ski patrol.

Mike T




 




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