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Ski "Logic" and the second pair of skis...



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 1st 05, 11:31 PM
Lisa Horton
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Default Ski "Logic" and the second pair of skis...

Okay, coming at my questions from a different angle, since ski
marketingspeak doesn't seem like it's going to yield the answers I need


Pretty soon it will be, of course, the cheap time to buy skiing gear.
My underlying question is should I consider buying a new pair of skis
now, or wait until next cheap season.

My current skis are Rossi Saphir Snow 2, from a year or two ago. Cheap
beginner skis. Radius 12M, 106/67/95. I bought them to be at least as
good as rentals, and to be the same skis each time, the idea being to
remove a variable, or if you prefer, to introduce a constant. They've
paid for themselves already in terms of rentals not paid for, and
they've been the same skis each time.

I don't think that I've outgrown them yet, but I think that I am likely
to before next summer.

My logic was that buying a cheap pair of beginner skis for my first year
would save me money and help me learn. I feel that that logic has been
proven. Onward...

I figure that when I get good enough, I'll need/want a GOOD pair of
skis, and I probably won't be getting them for $200, so I'd like to make
a wise choice. The logic question is if this pair of skis will be the
second, or third pair.

On the one hand, I could get a pair a bit better than what I've got,
considering them an interim pair, figuring that I might outgrow them by
the end of next season. Or I could just keep using what I've got,
knowing that by the end of next season I should outgrow them.

In any case, I think that next season I'll begin demoing skis, starting
to get a feel for what I might be looking for in that hypothetical
"GOOD" pair of skis.

In order for the interim skis idea to work out, they would have to be
relatively cheap. Mid or lower mid range skis, on summer clearance, are
cheap enough.

I ski easy and middling blues now. I don't, and don't intend to ski
really fast. I ski mostly groomed, but some ungroomed, which I'm
finding myself liking. I doubt if I'll be seeing much if any powder in
the next year, and most likely no bumps. My main focus is having fun
and increasing my skill level so I can have even more fun.

Lisa
  #2  
Old April 2nd 05, 01:35 AM
lal_truckee
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Default

Lisa Horton wrote:
I probably won't be getting them for $200


You'll get them for much less if you listen to me (and maybe The Real Bev.)

One, learn all you can about ski design through reading, questions, and
PRIMARILY "Engineering Thinking" - what might this sort of sidecut do,
how does it behave, what's gained/lost by increasing it or decreasing
it; same for width and length and stiffness. Think about how the
different variables fit together to make the ski perform the way it
will. Do alot of Gedanken Demo skiing - you can think your way through
discarding maybe 85% of the skis out there.

Two, learn what to look for to determine if a ski has life left -
condition of the edges, bases, mounting points, etc. (i.e. re edges -
it's not nicks or roughness; if a ski has been stone ground too many
times, the visible sidewall edge will be noticably thin relative to new
skis - forget them, go to the next pair - that pair has no life left in
them.)

Three, learn which model bindings are still good, and how to check them
on the spot.

Four, go to swaps, consignment shops, and garage sales (page Bev!) with
your information (particularly your "don't want" this ski list) and buy
your next excellent pair of skis for $25, with a sound binding already
mounted. Get several pairs of different style skis and try them out for
the experience - you'll likely end up skiing only one of them by
preference, and you'll KNOW WHY it's the right ski for you - a radical
difference from letting a manufacturer and shop take you to the cleaners.

Warning: Curmudgeon rant coming: You have been warned!

Skiing is actually not expensive compared to just about anything else
active you can do - much cheaper than a Gym membership, for example.
What you need to do is learn to live off the ignorant errors made by
others in their equipment purchases. Also get and use a pass to
somewhere - anywhere, actually - you can quadruple your skiing for less
money than you spend now - after you've learned to really ski it starts
to pay to go explore other areas. Join a ski lease so you can spend
every weekend skiing. Buy your ski clothes at mountain thrift shops -
it'll actually be more appropriate than anything you can find in the
flatlands. Basically opt out of the bizarre world of ski commerce!
  #3  
Old April 2nd 05, 02:44 AM
Lisa Horton
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Posts: n/a
Default



lal_truckee wrote:

Lisa Horton wrote:
I probably won't be getting them for $200


You'll get them for much less if you listen to me (and maybe The Real Bev.)

One, learn all you can about ski design through reading, questions, and
PRIMARILY "Engineering Thinking" - what might this sort of sidecut do,
how does it behave, what's gained/lost by increasing it or decreasing
it; same for width and length and stiffness. Think about how the
different variables fit together to make the ski perform the way it
will. Do alot of Gedanken Demo skiing - you can think your way through
discarding maybe 85% of the skis out there.

Two, learn what to look for to determine if a ski has life left -
condition of the edges, bases, mounting points, etc. (i.e. re edges -
it's not nicks or roughness; if a ski has been stone ground too many
times, the visible sidewall edge will be noticably thin relative to new
skis - forget them, go to the next pair - that pair has no life left in
them.)

Three, learn which model bindings are still good, and how to check them
on the spot.

Four, go to swaps, consignment shops, and garage sales (page Bev!) with
your information (particularly your "don't want" this ski list) and buy
your next excellent pair of skis for $25, with a sound binding already
mounted. Get several pairs of different style skis and try them out for
the experience - you'll likely end up skiing only one of them by
preference, and you'll KNOW WHY it's the right ski for you - a radical
difference from letting a manufacturer and shop take you to the cleaners.


Interesting. Sounds like a (relatively) cheap education in skis at the
expense of, as you say, the errors of others.

Just to be clear, we're talking about modern shaped skis at that kind of
price?


Warning: Curmudgeon rant coming: You have been warned!

Skiing is actually not expensive compared to just about anything else
active you can do - much cheaper than a Gym membership, for example.
What you need to do is learn to live off the ignorant errors made by
others in their equipment purchases. Also get and use a pass to
somewhere - anywhere, actually - you can quadruple your skiing for less
money than you spend now - after you've learned to really ski it starts
to pay to go explore other areas. Join a ski lease so you can spend
every weekend skiing. Buy your ski clothes at mountain thrift shops -
it'll actually be more appropriate than anything you can find in the
flatlands. Basically opt out of the bizarre world of ski commerce!


I like your logic. I picked up my skiwear for a song, much of it over
the summer. Interestingly, I figured that at my very beginning level, a
modest ski area would be more than adequate for the learning ahead, so I
got a pass at a modestly priced resort. A great investment, I agree.
Since I didn't progress as much as I thought, I got another pass for
next year.

I think my equipment path may lie somewhere in between yours and the
ones who make those ignorant errors. It takes time to develop sound
judgment about a type of gear. And I'm really good at finding excellent
bargains

I'm going to look into your suggestion of picking up a variety of used
skis. The idea of knowing, rather than hoping, that I know exactly what
I want is very appealing to me.

Lisa
  #4  
Old April 2nd 05, 02:59 AM
Mary Malmros
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Posts: n/a
Default

Lisa Horton wrote:
[lal's buying method snipped]

Interesting. Sounds like a (relatively) cheap education in skis at the
expense of, as you say, the errors of others.

Just to be clear, we're talking about modern shaped skis at that kind of
price?


Yeh, and it's not just errors but circumstances. Most ski areas employ
internationals, young kids who around now are headed to other
continents, and who can't or won't lug their skis with them. Look
around to see if there's a bulletin board somewhere around your local
area -- maybe stop by the ski school or HR, where employees may post
things for sale.

A lot of folks suggest buying on Ebay. That's okay as long as you know
exactly what you want and what it's worth, and you factor in the
shipping cost, which typically isn't cheap. Also, because it is an
auction and because it attracts so many bargain hunters, it's not that
common to find truly rock-bottom prices on Ebay, because it attracts
more buyers than a local sale. OTOH, Ebay is not a bad place to see
what the going rate is on various skis.

(Another good method is, of course, to have a big brother like mine ;-))

--
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield, other days you're the bug.

  #5  
Old April 2nd 05, 02:58 AM
The Real Bev
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Posts: n/a
Default

lal_truckee wrote:

Four, go to swaps, consignment shops, and garage sales (page Bev!) with
your information (particularly your "don't want" this ski list) and buy
your next excellent pair of skis for $25, with a sound binding already
mounted.


Minor caveat -- this doesn't work all that well in southern California. I
don't think I see a dozen pair of skis in a year, and most of those have
Arlberg straps. I was happy with my $30 MSLs (bought in 1998), but I didn't
buy my next skis until 2004. In that time I saw some shaped skis that were
way too long and some that were way too much and some that were both. Decent
and cheap clothing is easy to find, though. Carry on...

Get several pairs of different style skis and try them out for
the experience - you'll likely end up skiing only one of them by
preference, and you'll KNOW WHY it's the right ski for you - a radical
difference from letting a manufacturer and shop take you to the cleaners.

Warning: Curmudgeon rant coming: You have been warned!

Skiing is actually not expensive compared to just about anything else
active you can do - much cheaper than a Gym membership, for example.
What you need to do is learn to live off the ignorant errors made by
others in their equipment purchases.


This is the secret of life. Never buy new. If you follow this rule
religiously you can break it every once in a while when you have to. A
refrigerator, for example: the only time you ever want to buy a used one is
at an estate sale where you're sure the deceased was using it up until the
end, and total strangers generally don't die when your old refrigerator does.

Also get and use a pass to
somewhere - anywhere, actually - you can quadruple your skiing for less
money than you spend now - after you've learned to really ski it starts
to pay to go explore other areas. Join a ski lease so you can spend
every weekend skiing. Buy your ski clothes at mountain thrift shops -
it'll actually be more appropriate than anything you can find in the
flatlands. Basically opt out of the bizarre world of ski commerce!


There speaks a person with lots of nearby choices. Turns out a lift ticket
and 180 miles of gas cost about the same.

--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================== ================
"America is at an awkward stage: it is too late to work within the
system, but it is too early to shoot the *******s." -Claire Wolfe
 




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