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legal: 2/5/06 Snowboard death at Alpine Meadows



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 29th 10, 10:23 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
lal_truckee
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Posts: 1,348
Default legal: 2/5/06 Snowboard death at Alpine Meadows

Almost missed the trial results: Appeals court finding December 7, 2010
http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=In%20FCO%2020101207122.xml&d ocbase=CSLWAR3-2007-CURR

Common sense wins. How weird.

After all the legal shooting, you still have to feel for Jessica
Gregorie - all she wanted was to enjoy a day on the slopes. What she did
was take her board off to hike in soft snowboard boots on the traverse.
Usually no negative results.

Two rules:
1) Never take your board/skis off on a steep slope - those steel edges
are all that's keeping you from sliding into those rocks down there.
2) Be careful. Dying is no way to enjoy yourself.
Ads
  #2  
Old December 30th 10, 03:29 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,805
Default legal: 2/5/06 Snowboard death at Alpine Meadows

On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 14:23:52 -0800, lal_truckee
wrote this crap:

Two rules:
1) Never take your board/skis off on a steep slope - those steel edges
are all that's keeping you from sliding into those rocks down there.
2) Be careful. Dying is no way to enjoy yourself.


3.) Never drop your rum flask.


Vote for Palin-Brown in 2012. Repeal the nightmares.

This signature is now the ultimate
power in the universe
  #3  
Old December 31st 10, 10:16 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
lal_truckee
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Posts: 1,348
Default legal: 2/5/06 Snowboard death at Alpine Meadows

On 12/31/10 1:01 PM, Ted Waldron wrote:
In ,
wrote:

Two rules:
1) Never take your board/skis off on a steep slope - those steel edges
are all that's keeping you from sliding into those rocks down there.


I don't agree with this. It really depends on a variety of things.
If the snow isn't boilerplate, and the boarder/skier can kick steps to
climb out, then there is nothing wrong in removing one's skiis or board.


If you can easily stand and/or kick steps that's not the "steep" I'm
talking about. I've had to rescue boarders stuck on icy snow on High
Traverse back side here - they see a skier take off and mindlessly follow.

To get one board-less boarder to safety I had to sacrifice much of my
safety by giving the guy one of my poles while blocking his fall with my
body below and jamming my other pole into the ice between us giving him
a secure step on each stride. Scared the hell out of me, but the guy was
a goner otherwise. Most of the other cases were much easier on the nerves.

I'm convinced boarders believe their gear is the equivalent of skis.
It's not. Boards are a significant capability downgrade, not just in
climbing and traversing, but also in control and security in icy or
otherwise treacherous conditions (tree wells come to mind.)

We won't know whether this girl hit the tree or fell into the tree well
until the autopsy.

Avalanche danger is high in the Sierra; be careful.
  #4  
Old January 1st 11, 01:02 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
VtSkier
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Posts: 1,233
Default legal: 2/5/06 Snowboard death at Alpine Meadows

On 12/31/2010 05:16 PM, lal_truckee wrote:
On 12/31/10 1:01 PM, Ted Waldron wrote:
In ,
wrote:

Two rules:
1) Never take your board/skis off on a steep slope - those steel edges
are all that's keeping you from sliding into those rocks down there.


I don't agree with this. It really depends on a variety of things.
If the snow isn't boilerplate, and the boarder/skier can kick steps to
climb out, then there is nothing wrong in removing one's skiis or board.


If you can easily stand and/or kick steps that's not the "steep" I'm
talking about. I've had to rescue boarders stuck on icy snow on High
Traverse back side here - they see a skier take off and mindlessly follow.

To get one board-less boarder to safety I had to sacrifice much of my
safety by giving the guy one of my poles while blocking his fall with my
body below and jamming my other pole into the ice between us giving him
a secure step on each stride. Scared the hell out of me, but the guy was
a goner otherwise. Most of the other cases were much easier on the nerves.

I'm convinced boarders believe their gear is the equivalent of skis.
It's not. Boards are a significant capability downgrade, not just in
climbing and traversing, but also in control and security in icy or
otherwise treacherous conditions (tree wells come to mind.)

We won't know whether this girl hit the tree or fell into the tree well
until the autopsy.

Avalanche danger is high in the Sierra; be careful.


So I helped a local patroller rescue an injured
skier on a steep icy trail. It was my job to hold
the sled in place from below at 90 degrees to the
fall line while the patroller maneuvered the
injured party into the sled. While he was instructing
me on what to do, the first thing he said was, "Don't
take your skis off."

It all worked out OK and we got the guy down, but it
was dicey.
  #5  
Old January 1st 11, 01:17 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
twobuddha twobuddha is offline
Banned
 
First recorded activity by SkiBanter: Oct 2006
Posts: 8,058
Default legal: 2/5/06 Snowboard death at Alpine Meadows

On Dec 31, 2:16*pm, lal_truckee wrote:
On 12/31/10 1:01 PM, Ted Waldron wrote:

In ,
* *wrote:


Two rules:
1) Never take your board/skis off on a steep slope - those steel edges
are all that's keeping you from sliding into those rocks down there.


* * *I don't agree with this. It really depends on a variety of things.
If the snow isn't boilerplate, and the boarder/skier can kick steps to
climb out, then there is nothing wrong in removing one's skiis or board..


If you can easily stand and/or kick steps that's not the "steep" I'm
talking about. I've had to rescue boarders stuck on icy snow on High
Traverse back side here - they see a skier take off and mindlessly follow..

To get one board-less boarder to safety I had to sacrifice much of my
safety by giving the guy one of my poles while blocking his fall with my
body below and jamming my other pole into the ice between us giving him
a secure step on each stride. Scared the hell out of me, but the guy was
a goner otherwise. Most of the other cases were much easier on the nerves..

I'm convinced boarders believe their gear is the equivalent of skis.
It's not. Boards are a significant capability downgrade, not just in
climbing and traversing, but also in control and security in icy or
otherwise treacherous conditions (tree wells come to mind.)

We won't know whether this girl hit the tree or fell into the tree well
until the autopsy.

Avalanche danger is high in the Sierra; be careful.


Awwww. Another hero story from a pathetic, stalking coward. Hey,
freak? If you're such a good guy on the hill, why do you not only
tolerate but encourage people who threaten MY life?
I'm convinced you're a transparent fraud and an all around asshole.
  #6  
Old January 1st 11, 01:19 AM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
twobuddha twobuddha is offline
Banned
 
First recorded activity by SkiBanter: Oct 2006
Posts: 8,058
Default legal: 2/5/06 Snowboard death at Alpine Meadows

On Dec 31, 5:02*pm, VtSkier wrote:
On 12/31/2010 05:16 PM, lal_truckee wrote:





On 12/31/10 1:01 PM, Ted Waldron wrote:
In ,
wrote:


Two rules:
1) Never take your board/skis off on a steep slope - those steel edges
are all that's keeping you from sliding into those rocks down there.


I don't agree with this. It really depends on a variety of things.
If the snow isn't boilerplate, and the boarder/skier can kick steps to
climb out, then there is nothing wrong in removing one's skiis or board.


If you can easily stand and/or kick steps that's not the "steep" I'm
talking about. I've had to rescue boarders stuck on icy snow on High
Traverse back side here - they see a skier take off and mindlessly follow.


To get one board-less boarder to safety I had to sacrifice much of my
safety by giving the guy one of my poles while blocking his fall with my
body below and jamming my other pole into the ice between us giving him
a secure step on each stride. Scared the hell out of me, but the guy was
a goner otherwise. Most of the other cases were much easier on the nerves.


I'm convinced boarders believe their gear is the equivalent of skis.
It's not. Boards are a significant capability downgrade, not just in
climbing and traversing, but also in control and security in icy or
otherwise treacherous conditions (tree wells come to mind.)


We won't know whether this girl hit the tree or fell into the tree well
until the autopsy.


Avalanche danger is high in the Sierra; be careful.


So I helped a local patroller rescue an injured
skier on a steep icy trail. It was my job to hold
the sled in place from below at 90 degrees to the
fall line while the patroller maneuvered the
injured party into the sled. While he was instructing
me on what to do, the first thing he said was, "Don't
take your skis off."


Another laughable hero story from a rsa stalking coward. They could
have used a ****ing post.

It all worked out OK and we got the guy down, but it
was dicey.-


Hey, freak? What if it was ME needing a sled down an icy run? You'd
let go, right? After all, you have repeatedly threatened my life, but
when the time came to sneak through Seattle, you came up with a truly
ridiculous excuse. Afraid I would show up at Sun Peaks, eh?
Not to worry. As much as I would like to meet you in person and give
you what you deserve, I don't ski over Christmas. Anywhere.
  #7  
Old January 1st 11, 03:10 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
VtSkier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,233
Default legal: 2/5/06 Snowboard death at Alpine Meadows

On 12/31/2010 09:37 PM, comadrejo wrote:
In ,
wrote:

On 12/31/2010 05:16 PM, lal_truckee wrote:
On 12/31/10 1:01 PM, Ted Waldron wrote:
In ,
wrote:

Two rules:
1) Never take your board/skis off on a steep slope - those steel edges
are all that's keeping you from sliding into those rocks down there.

I don't agree with this. It really depends on a variety of things.
If the snow isn't boilerplate, and the boarder/skier can kick steps to
climb out, then there is nothing wrong in removing one's skiis or board.

If you can easily stand and/or kick steps that's not the "steep" I'm
talking about. I've had to rescue boarders stuck on icy snow on High
Traverse back side here - they see a skier take off and mindlessly follow.

To get one board-less boarder to safety I had to sacrifice much of my
safety by giving the guy one of my poles while blocking his fall with my
body below and jamming my other pole into the ice between us giving him
a secure step on each stride. Scared the hell out of me, but the guy was
a goner otherwise. Most of the other cases were much easier on the nerves.

I'm convinced boarders believe their gear is the equivalent of skis.
It's not. Boards are a significant capability downgrade, not just in
climbing and traversing, but also in control and security in icy or
otherwise treacherous conditions (tree wells come to mind.)

We won't know whether this girl hit the tree or fell into the tree well
until the autopsy.

Avalanche danger is high in the Sierra; be careful.


So I helped a local patroller rescue an injured
skier on a steep icy trail. It was my job to hold
the sled in place from below at 90 degrees to the
fall line while the patroller maneuvered the
injured party into the sled. While he was instructing
me on what to do, the first thing he said was, "Don't
take your skis off."


As I wrote, it depends on the snow conditions. I wouldn't recommend
rescuing anyone if the scene appears very unsafe and the rescuer is
likely to become a casualty. If it is a very icy slope and the rescuer
has to approach with extreme caution, yes, edges are your safety
equipment. However there should be other safety equipment like a snow
anchor/snow post, besides rope, harness and a silent partner or figure
eight device.

My point is that "Never take off your skis on a steep slope", isn't a
failsafe adage, there many other circumstances. The key is to get the
person out of an unsafe situation, and not make the rescuer a victim as
well.

Besides you weren't on a steep slope, you were above it :-) (or that is
what I decipher from your post)


Nope, if you know Killington, Lower Double Dipper about 1/3 of the way
down, not the steepest part but definitely steep.


However if the skier has a choice between sidestepping and kicking
steps to get out of a hairy situation, than I would recommend
sidestepping with the skis or board given the weight distribution.


Sidestepping with a board?



It all worked out OK and we got the guy down, but it
was dicey.


As in many rescue situation,which is why I am stressing that mountain
rescue has to have more important tools than ski and snowboard edges.


Snow conditions were boilerplate, not RealIce(tm) that you can
see a fish through so there was a little edgeability.
It would appear that the alternative to what we did would have
been to set an anchor above and then rope the sled either up
or down. In this location up probably would have been better.
But the patroller thought he could work it in the 'normal'
manner and we did. I never felt afraid, but I recognized
the dicey-ness of the situation.
  #8  
Old January 1st 11, 06:09 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
twobuddha twobuddha is offline
Banned
 
First recorded activity by SkiBanter: Oct 2006
Posts: 8,058
Default legal: 2/5/06 Snowboard death at Alpine Meadows

On Jan 1, 7:10*am, VtSkier wrote:
On 12/31/2010 09:37 PM, comadrejo wrote:





In ,
* *wrote:


On 12/31/2010 05:16 PM, lal_truckee wrote:
On 12/31/10 1:01 PM, Ted Waldron wrote:
In ,
*wrote:


Two rules:
1) Never take your board/skis off on a steep slope - those steel edges
are all that's keeping you from sliding into those rocks down there..


I don't agree with this. It really depends on a variety of things.
If the snow isn't boilerplate, and the boarder/skier can kick steps to
climb out, then there is nothing wrong in removing one's skiis or board.


If you can easily stand and/or kick steps that's not the "steep" I'm
talking about. I've had to rescue boarders stuck on icy snow on High
Traverse back side here - they see a skier take off and mindlessly follow.


To get one board-less boarder to safety I had to sacrifice much of my
safety by giving the guy one of my poles while blocking his fall with my
body below and jamming my other pole into the ice between us giving him
a secure step on each stride. Scared the hell out of me, but the guy was
a goner otherwise. Most of the other cases were much easier on the nerves.


I'm convinced boarders believe their gear is the equivalent of skis.
It's not. Boards are a significant capability downgrade, not just in
climbing and traversing, but also in control and security in icy or
otherwise treacherous conditions (tree wells come to mind.)


We won't know whether this girl hit the tree or fell into the tree well
until the autopsy.


Avalanche danger is high in the Sierra; be careful.


So I helped a local patroller rescue an injured
skier on a steep icy trail. It was my job to hold
the sled in place from below at 90 degrees to the
fall line while the patroller maneuvered the
injured party into the sled. While he was instructing
me on what to do, the first thing he said was, "Don't
take your skis off."


As I wrote, it depends on the snow conditions. I wouldn't recommend
rescuing anyone if the scene appears very unsafe and the rescuer is
likely to become a casualty. *If it is a very icy slope and the rescuer
has to approach with extreme caution, yes, edges are your safety
equipment. *However there should be other safety equipment like a snow
anchor/snow post, besides rope, harness and a silent partner or figure
eight device.


My point is that "Never take off your skis on a steep slope", isn't a
failsafe adage, there many other circumstances. The key is to get the
person out of an unsafe situation, and not make the rescuer a victim as
well.


Besides you weren't on a steep slope, you were above it :-) (or that is
what I decipher from your post)


Nope, if you know Killington, Lower Double Dipper about 1/3 of the way
down, not the steepest part but definitely steep.



* *However if the skier has a choice between sidestepping and kicking
steps to get out of a hairy situation, than I would recommend
sidestepping with the skis or board given the weight distribution.


Sidestepping with a board?



It all worked out OK and we got the guy down, but it
was dicey.


As in many rescue situation,which is why I am stressing that mountain
rescue has to have more important tools than ski and snowboard edges.


Snow conditions were boilerplate, not RealIce(tm) that you can
see a fish through so there was a little edgeability.
It would appear that the alternative to what we did would have
been to set an anchor above and then rope the sled either up
or down. In this location up probably would have been better.
But the patroller thought he could work it in the 'normal'
manner and we did. I never felt afraid, but I recognized
the dicey-ness of the situation.-


More cowardly posing pretending to be a hero. Standard issue sled
work, not even worth mentioning. But this freak wants to look like he
is a decent human being......when we all know the REAL Richard Walsh,
a psychopathic pathological liar and terrorist.
  #9  
Old January 1st 11, 10:21 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Dave Cartman
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Posts: 1,382
Default legal: 2/5/06 Snowboard death at Alpine Meadows

In article ,
Ted Waldron wrote:

In article
,
twobuddha wrote:

What if it was ME needing a sled down an icy run? You'd
let go, right?


For any Wilderness/Mountain SAR situation, the Hippocratic Oath
applies of "Do No Harm".


"Primum non nocere" or "First do no harm"

We used to add, "because there'll be plenty of time for that later."
 




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