Hoffman's High Hemologin Values

Does any of our Scandinavian friends know about Christian Hoffman
being recently banned from racing for 14 days because of high
hemoglobin values. I was reading Jenex's website and they mentioned
this. I know he finished in the top 3 recently in a World Cup event.
It reminds me of 1999 when the Austrians with Hoffman and Botvinow
beat the Norwegians in the World Championship Relay. I smelled a rat
then and at Salt Lake too. Hoffman and Botwinow won Olympic Medals
there I believe in the 30km Free. This prevented Bjorndalen the
Biathlete from medaling along with another Norwegian.

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 08:49:37 -0700 (PDT), ADK Skier
wrote:

Does any of our Scandinavian friends know about Christian Hoffman
being recently banned from racing for 14 days because of high
hemoglobin values. I was reading Jenex's website and they mentioned
this. I know he finished in the top 3 recently in a World Cup event.
It reminds me of 1999 when the Austrians with Hoffman and Botvinow
beat the Norwegians in the World Championship Relay. I smelled a rat
then and at Salt Lake too.

Kikkan Randall and Leif Zimmerman of the US team got blood value
related suspensions in 2006. Did you smell anything then?

I don't think it's good to judge people based on high Hg values. If
you've got other reasons to suspect them, then maybe....

I'll stay out of that one. Some February lab test results - in the
midst of races - showed my Hemoglobin count to be 16.1 g/dl, which is
just below what I think is the current FIS limit of 16.5 for males
(14.5 for women), and got me to wondering. I do live at 5000' and
typically train and race up to about 6600,' which would run up the
number a bit. In any case, this thread led me to do a google search on
"high hemoglobin values cross country ski." The first few result pages
have some very informative articles and studies about the history of
doping in x-c skiing, hemoglobin count changes over time among
competitors, and even some specific recommendations to athletes from
the IOC Medical Cmte about how to take official blood tests (their
suggestions dovetail with Jim Stray-Gunderson's 2006 criticisms of
hemoglobin criteria at
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olymp...xpelled_x.htm).

Gene


John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 08:49:37 -0700 (PDT), ADK Skier
wrote:

Does any of our Scandinavian friends know about Christian Hoffman
being recently banned from racing for 14 days because of high
hemoglobin values. I was reading Jenex's website and they mentioned
this. I know he finished in the top 3 recently in a World Cup event.
It reminds me of 1999 when the Austrians with Hoffman and Botvinow
beat the Norwegians in the World Championship Relay. I smelled a rat
then and at Salt Lake too.

Kikkan Randall and Leif Zimmerman of the US team got blood value
related suspensions in 2006. Did you smell anything then?

I don't think it's good to judge people based on high Hg values. If
you've got other reasons to suspect them, then maybe....

ADK Skier wrote:
Does any of our Scandinavian friends know about Christian Hoffman
being recently banned from racing for 14 days because of high
hemoglobin values. I was reading Jenex's website and they mentioned
this. I know he finished in the top 3 recently in a World Cup event.

The real problem wasn't a high hemo value, but the wrong ratio between
what I understadn to be "live" hemo and the breakdown byproducts.

Supposedly the only way to achieve this is to artificially increase the
first number, but since all testing have found him otherwise clean, we
have to assume that's true.

Terje

--
- Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

On Mar 23, 3:11*pm, Terje Mathisen "terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"
wrote:
ADK Skier wrote:
Does any of our Scandinavian friends know about Christian Hoffman
being recently banned from racing for 14 days because of high
hemoglobin values. I was reading Jenex's website and they mentioned
this. I know he finished in the top 3 recently in a World Cup event.

The real problem wasn't a high hemo value, but the wrong ratio between
what I understadn to be "live" hemo and the breakdown byproducts.

Supposedly the only way to achieve this is to artificially increase the
first number, but since all testing have found him otherwise clean, we
have to assume that's true.

Terje

--
- Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

Thanks Terje. The Jenex article said Hoffman has been measuring high
on several occassions recently. The history of the Austrian Team with
coaches supporting doping and the transfusion equipment found in their
apartment in Salt Lake is what sets off a red flag. I understand they
had a coach who was banned from any contact with races or athletes and
kept showing up where Austrian Athletes were staying.

On Mar 23, 9:11*pm, Terje Mathisen "terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"
wrote:


The real problem wasn't a high hemo value, but the wrong ratio between
what I understand to be "live" hemo and the breakdown byproducts.

Quite frankly I don't know what I'm talking about, but the news item I
read specified the ratio between hemoglobin and reticulocytes (or
freshly formed red blood cells).

The "full dope" on the "Refined rules for start prohibition" is he
http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/news/press...c-program.html


Supposedly the only way to achieve this is to artificially increase the
first number, but since all testing have found him otherwise clean, we
have to assume that's true.

According to the Austrian Ski Federation, a test done on Friday - a
day after the FIS test that led to Hoffman becoming the historical
"first" under the new rule - produced "normal" results. Since the FIS
test must have been in error or carried out improperly, they now
demand that the ban be removed immediately and that the rule must be
reconsidered. "The Austrian anti-doping expert Hans Holdhaus fully
agrees with these opinions."


Meanwhile, in a completely unrelated development, the former coach
Walter Mayer was arrested late Sunday night by ten agents of the
Bundeskriminalamt in connection with a case involving a 32-year-old
cyclist, a Viennese pharmacist, a suspended pediatric oncologist and
EPO.


Anders

On Mar 24, 3:32*am, Lustig wrote:
On Mar 23, 9:11*pm, Terje Mathisen "terje.mathisen at tmsw.no"
wrote:

The real problem wasn't a high hemo value, but the wrong ratio between
what I understand to be "live" hemo and the breakdown byproducts.

Quite frankly I don't know what I'm talking about, but the news item I
read specified the ratio between hemoglobin and reticulocytes (or
freshly formed red blood cells).

The "full dope" on the "Refined rules for start prohibition" is hehttp://www.fis-ski.com/uk/news/press...ases-2009/libe...

Supposedly the only way to achieve this is to artificially increase the
first number, but since all testing have found him otherwise clean, we
have to assume that's true.

According to the Austrian Ski Federation, a test done on Friday - a
day after the FIS test that led to Hoffman becoming the historical
"first" under the new rule - produced "normal" results. Since the FIS
test must have been in error or carried out improperly, they now
demand that the ban be removed immediately and that the rule must be
reconsidered. "The Austrian anti-doping expert Hans Holdhaus fully
agrees with these opinions."

Meanwhile, in a completely unrelated development, the former coach
Walter Mayer was arrested late Sunday night by ten agents of the
Bundeskriminalamt in connection with a case involving a 32-year-old
cyclist, a Viennese pharmacist, a suspended pediatric oncologist and
EPO.

Anders

Yes, I read about Mayer in todays paper as well. I confess I'm bias in
my support for the Norwegian Ski Team. At the 1994 Olympics, and 1999
worlds I felt the Norwegians were unstoppable in the relay. In Salt
Lake I was cheering for Bjorndalen to be the first Biathlete to medal
in cross country. I shouldn't assume anyone is doping without proof.
Vegard Ulvang commented after the 1994 Olympic relay loss to Italy
that Norwegians need to expect to lose sometimes. Sounds like good
advice.