Fuzzing up your old skates

Hi all,

Has anyone ever tried making a pair of "classic" skis by scratching the
hell out of the underfoot zone on a pair of firmly flexed skates?

Just curious if one can make their own "fuzzies" for near-zero
conditions from skates. I've yet to find a pair of patterned classics
that actually keep the pattern off the snow when I ski...

Cheers,
Chris

Chris,
Would you not use a soft pair of classic skis or really soft skate skis
to make hairies, rather than a stiff pair?

I have not made my own hairies, but I do own a pair of the Fischer
Zeros, along with Fischer Carbonlite Classic skis. The camber height of the
Zeros is about half of the regular classic race skis. Since a layer of wax
is about 0.05mm and assuming 6 layers of wax, I'd estimate the thickness of
the 'hairs' brought up must be about half the thickness of the average kick
wax job. So your homemade hair skis would need to be soft enough to fully
compress to get any kick in my opinion. While still being stiff enough when
gliding so there is no drag.

Where I live, here in northern Wisconsin on Lake Superior, the
conditions tend to be cold and dry most of the winter. I only use my Zeros a
few times a year, but they work extremely well in those tricky conditions
around zero. They are a high end, specialty race ski.

The first pair I received was not flexed correctly, had major drag and
were unusable. My current pair were flexed on a flex board and the 'hair'
zone is completely free when my weight is evenly distributed. They glide as
well as my regular classic race skis and there is no drag.

If you do ski in the conditions around zero a lot, I would definitely
consider adding a pair of Zeros to your quiver. I'd add the Zeros, after I
had a good pair of cold wax skis and good klister skis.

As I pointed out with the experience with my first pair, they can be
tricky to flex. Zach Caldwell would definitely be the guy to go to, so you
get a good pair.

Paul Haltvick
Bay Design and Build - LLC
Engineering, Construction
FSx Midwest - Fischer / Swix Racing

"Chris Cole" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Has anyone ever tried making a pair of "classic" skis by scratching the
hell out of the underfoot zone on a pair of firmly flexed skates?

Just curious if one can make their own "fuzzies" for near-zero
conditions from skates. I've yet to find a pair of patterned classics
that actually keep the pattern off the snow when I ski...

Cheers,
Chris

Paul,
I agree with your reply to Chris about using a soft pair of skates,
rather than a stiff pair, tho even then the skate camber probably works
differently.

On the subject of classic Carbonlites, I also have a two-year-old
pair from Zach, the finish of which is too stiff for me (Zach knew
going in). In talking recently with his partners at Boulder Nordic,
their opinion (measurements) is that Carbonlites have a relatively high
camber that is not well suited for cold dry snow, such as you describe
for northern Wisconsin and is definitely the case here in the Rockies
(I thought the lake effect snow, which is presumably a large part of
what you see, is relatively moist). There was a cold NIS Carbonlite
version this year, and perhaps that's what you have, but BN steered me
strongly toward the RCS cold. The long, low wax pocket of the RCS-NIS
pair I tried worked well in our conditions, even when the temp went
well up into the 30s.

Gene


"Norski" wrote:

Chris,
Would you not use a soft pair of classic skis or really soft skate skis
to make hairies, rather than a stiff pair?

I have not made my own hairies, but I do own a pair of the Fischer
Zeros, along with Fischer Carbonlite Classic skis. The camber height of the
Zeros is about half of the regular classic race skis. Since a layer of wax
is about 0.05mm and assuming 6 layers of wax, I'd estimate the thickness of
the 'hairs' brought up must be about half the thickness of the average kick
wax job. So your homemade hair skis would need to be soft enough to fully
compress to get any kick in my opinion. While still being stiff enough when
gliding so there is no drag.

Where I live, here in northern Wisconsin on Lake Superior, the
conditions tend to be cold and dry most of the winter. I only use my Zeros a
few times a year, but they work extremely well in those tricky conditions
around zero. They are a high end, specialty race ski.

The first pair I received was not flexed correctly, had major drag and
were unusable. My current pair were flexed on a flex board and the 'hair'
zone is completely free when my weight is evenly distributed. They glide as
well as my regular classic race skis and there is no drag.

If you do ski in the conditions around zero a lot, I would definitely
consider adding a pair of Zeros to your quiver. I'd add the Zeros, after I
had a good pair of cold wax skis and good klister skis.

As I pointed out with the experience with my first pair, they can be
tricky to flex. Zach Caldwell would definitely be the guy to go to, so you
get a good pair.

Paul Haltvick
Bay Design and Build - LLC
Engineering, Construction
FSx Midwest - Fischer / Swix Racing

"Chris Cole" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Has anyone ever tried making a pair of "classic" skis by scratching the
hell out of the underfoot zone on a pair of firmly flexed skates?

Just curious if one can make their own "fuzzies" for near-zero
conditions from skates. I've yet to find a pair of patterned classics
that actually keep the pattern off the snow when I ski...

Cheers,
Chris

I'd be interested in hearing what kind of luck anyone has using skate
skis for classic in general. It might be neat to have one pair that
you could kick wax or scrape clean then glide wax.

Sure, they make combis---I don't know how those are either.

I've done some fun/OK skating in a mellow way with classic skis. I
suppose I could go fast that way.

But I haven't tried it going the other way.

My bro has some combi skis that seem to get terrible grip on uphills
for him when he waxes them for classic skiing.

I remember way back in 1987, skating equipment was well under way,
with short skis, single cambers, tall stiff boots, but Christian
Naess, a Norwegian college student, won the US 50km Nat'ls skate event
using classic skis and boots. He tested em and they outglided his
other set-ups. But probably that kind of situation doesn't apply in
any sense to the needs of mortals. (I also recall reading/hearing
about Italians at the Birkie who had skis without grooves---a citizen
skier noticed this while everyone was waxing and the Italian said,
"Yes, very fast but not for you, you would fall down.")

--JP

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:11:57 -0700 (PDT), jeff potter
wrote:

I remember way back in 1987, skating equipment was well under way,
with short skis, single cambers, tall stiff boots,

Short skis?

I was racing at that time and the purpose-built Fischers skate skis I
had were 200cm. I also used classic skis of about the same length for
skating. That's shorter than skis for classicking at the time, but not
particularly short.

jeff potter wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing what kind of luck anyone has using skate
skis for classic in general. It might be neat to have one pair that

I did that for _many_ years: My best (and sometimes only) pair was the
Fischer skate, and I used them for everything, including multiday
backcountry tours. I don't think I ever glide waxed the entire ski, I
would just skip the grip waxing if conditions looked too iffy.

you could kick wax or scrape clean then glide wax.

I would skate on them with kick wax when said wax started slipping, or
the weather changed, or I found a lake with skatable crust etc.

I remember way back in 1987, skating equipment was well under way,
with short skis, single cambers, tall stiff boots, but Christian
Naess, a Norwegian college student, won the US 50km Nat'ls skate event

Well, he _was_ Norwegian...

using classic skis and boots. He tested em and they outglided his
other set-ups. But probably that kind of situation doesn't apply in
any sense to the needs of mortals. (I also recall reading/hearing

I'm getting more mortal every year, but I've realized that I skate
better in my low classic boots than in the high/stiff(er) skate boots.

We've always skated in that kind of gear, when conditions called for it
(i.e. crust cruising, lakes etc), my feet really don't like the lack of
motion in a skate boot.

about Italians at the Birkie who had skis without grooves---a citizen
skier noticed this while everyone was waxing and the Italian said,
"Yes, very fast but not for you, you would fall down.")
;-)

Terje
--
- Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"