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#11
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Clarifications (from personal experience):
"Booker C. Bense" bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Jan.09.05@telemark. slac.stanford.edu wrote In my experience carbon poles do not break until they get cut. Intact carbon shafts are nearly indestructible. Sounds about right (from fishing and other experience). Of course, they are right next to those sharp steel edges. I put a foot of vinyl heat shrink tubing on the base of mine and they have lasted longer than any pair of poles I've ever had, 6 seasons so far. I've never had a pair of aluminum poles last a single season. Excellent idea (I had a friend who used duct tape on his poles and the top edges of his skis). I'm about ready to epoxy the top edges of my skis where they have broken due to excessive wear caused by lack of control of my sharp edges... Where does one get the shrink tubing of that size, and how does one put it on (over/around the baskets)? _ Aluminum poles will break shortly after they get bent, and they bend and break much easier than carbon. The key is not the bend. I have a pair of bent poles that have lasted 2 years after being bent. The key damage is a KINK in the metal - anything unsmooth, though my wife has a small kink that has lasted for 4 years - she doesn't use her poles much in action. _ The Life-Link Variants have a STEEL bottom section, so they are effectively indestructible, if relatively heavy. I was considering a 15 cm or so section of aluminum tubing, probably cut out of an old pole, left floating to deflect edge damage. _ I tour with carbon poles. IMHO, I'm much more worried about the durablity of the adjustment mechanism, than of the carbon shaft. I tour with bamboo. I downhill with standard downhill poles that are half way between proper downhill and XC length. I don't know if they would do in the longer touring - I still haven't got my randonee skis off the resort slopes - but they sure are a blessing on the long traverses where I ski (Kirkwood, California). I'm trying to get my son to take his board into the BC, and have been trying to convince him to get a pair of snowshoes. I guess renting is the way to go in the meantime. I need to try my current boots on an XC trial before I do that. Damned snow has closed the roads... Dan Dan |
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#12
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Booker, why are probe poles useless when it really counts? The
setup(assembly) time is about the same. And I can't see it being a strength issue. I realize that, when screwed together, the probe is about 7 feet long, compared to a real probe being maybe 10 feet--I've always believed that if the victim is that deep, over 7 feet, you are probably not going to reach the victim anyway. Am I missing something? Bill Maas ---------------------- snip _ First, probe poles are useless when it really counts, carry a real probe. _ Booker C. Bense |
#13
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article , William Maas wrote: Booker, why are probe poles useless when it really counts? The setup(assembly) time is about the same. And I can't see it being a strength issue. _ It takes 15 seconds to assemble any relatively recent probe. You can't even get one basket off that fast, plus you need to disassemble the poles. If you can't put your probe together drastically faster than probe poles, you should get a new probe. I realize that, when screwed together, the probe is about 7 feet long, compared to a real probe being maybe 10 feet--I've always believed that if the victim is that deep, over 7 feet, you are probably not going to reach the victim anyway. _ That's an interesting take on savings a friend's life. The odd's are on your side, but we are are talking about someone's life. How would you feel when the rescuers show up and find an ice mask on your friend's face rather than a broken back? Am I missing something? _ I'm not aware of any probe pole that's longer than 6 feet, in practice that means you have a 4ft or less to comfortably work with. Most probes are 280 or 300 cm. That gives you 6 feet of easy used reach. _ Lastly, it's about attitude. IMHO, if you aren't willing to carry the piddling extra weight of a probe then you aren't serious about saving someone's life. Personally, I think there is far too much focus on beacons, probes and shovels, but if you are going to trust them with your life then you should take it seriously. _ Booker C. Bense -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBQeHZamTWTAjn5N/lAQHkowP9GBHHyCvUdneqpu26+OPSc4n5LhjNKVK9 VCzct7gIb4f0mOPUNcBvIPi6C2VqaaQuI8D9neZ7kmdZEHP9Pe Hq20uRNGlNnR6q Ph/Rj/9mYs2wthixI4qwSLSBTrjEzqJ+G9ugW8t2C5Umc9icGqoYx+Xm oYqGoUbl rPkuATyIfro= =Qm4L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#14
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True probes are much narrow than ski poles, and don't have any obstructions
along the length. When you're probing avalanche debris that is like cement, obstructions and width make a big difference. Get a real probe. Brad P.S. The Canadian guides I've skied with laugh at those probe poles. "Booker C. Bense" bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Jan.09.05@telemark. slac.stanford.edu wrote in message ... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In article , William Maas wrote: Booker, why are probe poles useless when it really counts? The setup(assembly) time is about the same. And I can't see it being a strength issue. _ It takes 15 seconds to assemble any relatively recent probe. You can't even get one basket off that fast, plus you need to disassemble the poles. If you can't put your probe together drastically faster than probe poles, you should get a new probe. I realize that, when screwed together, the probe is about 7 feet long, compared to a real probe being maybe 10 feet--I've always believed that if the victim is that deep, over 7 feet, you are probably not going to reach the victim anyway. _ That's an interesting take on savings a friend's life. The odd's are on your side, but we are are talking about someone's life. How would you feel when the rescuers show up and find an ice mask on your friend's face rather than a broken back? Am I missing something? _ I'm not aware of any probe pole that's longer than 6 feet, in practice that means you have a 4ft or less to comfortably work with. Most probes are 280 or 300 cm. That gives you 6 feet of easy used reach. _ Lastly, it's about attitude. IMHO, if you aren't willing to carry the piddling extra weight of a probe then you aren't serious about saving someone's life. Personally, I think there is far too much focus on beacons, probes and shovels, but if you are going to trust them with your life then you should take it seriously. _ Booker C. Bense -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBQeHZamTWTAjn5N/lAQHkowP9GBHHyCvUdneqpu26+OPSc4n5LhjNKVK9 VCzct7gIb4f0mOPUNcBvIPi6C2VqaaQuI8D9neZ7kmdZEHP9Pe Hq20uRNGlNnR6q Ph/Rj/9mYs2wthixI4qwSLSBTrjEzqJ+G9ugW8t2C5Umc9icGqoYx+Xm oYqGoUbl rPkuATyIfro= =Qm4L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#15
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Another reason to have a real probe is that you might well need to have
ready access to functional poles in the midst of a rescue. Say you are probing and something happens: another slide, your buddies find a beacon signal some distance away, etc. You will be happy to be able to use poles w/o reassembling your poles to ski somewhere else. Having a real probe allows you to have the best of both. keith |
#16
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William Maas wrote:
Booker, why are probe poles useless when it really counts? The setup(assembly) time is about the same. And I can't see it being a strength issue. The setup time might be the same if you're sat in a warm room with nothing particularly stressful happening, but time is of the essence and your mind might possibly be a bit phased if your pal has just been buried in front of you... No baskets to remove, nothing to screw together, no pole locks to slip (or if a flicklock, impede the progress of the pole/probe through snow pack), and if you've just been avalanched having removed your straps in case you got avalanched... a much better chance that you'll have the probe and it won't be an, ummmm, "interesting" shape. A proper probe is just miles better. The carbon ones weigh very little and slide down the side of a pack easily, so there's little issue from the packing side of it. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
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