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Trond Lays it Out
Very good interview with Trond Nystad on fasterskier.com this morning.
Probably going to **** off quite a few people but maybe that is what we need. Trond says most don't know what 850 hours of training looks like. Anyone out here know? Obviously the math is simple but how much of that is low level and how does someone like Trond define low level. Dave |
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On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:35:43 -0500, "DMK"
wrote: Very good interview with Trond Nystad on fasterskier.com this morning. Probably going to **** off quite a few people but maybe that is what we need. Trond says most don't know what 850 hours of training looks like. Anyone out here know? I can speculate. I know what 20 hours in a week and what 35 hours in two weeks is like (with 30-35 hours of dayjob work each week and no social life) Took a lot of planning to pull that off and the next week was like 7 hours. With a lot of day-job. 850? With no work or family responsiblities and a decent support system of massage, good food, etc that would be very doable. But how may skiers in the US have that luxury? JFT **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com **************************** |
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On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:57:31 -0500, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote: I can speculate. I know what 20 hours in a week and what 35 hours in two weeks is like (with 30-35 hours of dayjob work each week and no social life) Took a lot of planning to pull that off and the next week was like 7 hours. With a lot of day-job. Oh, this was for cycling, not skiing, and was in February and March in bad weather for the sport, though a third of the athletic activity was indoors. JFT **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com **************************** |
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DMK wrote:
Very good interview with Trond Nystad on fasterskier.com this morning. Probably going to **** off quite a few people but maybe that is what we need. Trond says most don't know what 850 hours of training looks like. Anyone out here know? Obviously the math is simple but how much of that is low level and how does someone like Trond define low level. When I was seriously into rock climbing, in my third year at university, I kept a training diary: 18 hours/week of climbing/gymnastics, plus skiing, running, orienteering, volleyball, kayak and some (board) diving. Adding it all together would have put me well over 25 hours/week which is in the right ballpark. :-) I got pretty decent grades at the same time, but I did _not_ have a girlfriend. :-( Terje -- - "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching" |
#5
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One thing I notice in a few elite reports is that they don't count
certain kinds of hours. The standard that they used seemed a little harsh or unrealistic or even like it would thwart what hours to meant to be used for, but they're the pro's. Maybe such things as the various "kinds" of hours take on a whole new meaning for these folks. I don't recall exact examples right now but it seemed like fairly sizeable workouts would end up being tagged as lots smaller. --JP |
#6
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The context of my reaction to Jason's plaint about Newell not getting
the whoop-de-doo on rsn can be found here in the Nystad interview: Q: Do you take issue then with American coaches? A: I take issue with them in that they are too proud to admit something could be done better. Their incompetence comes in insisting their way is the only way. There are a million ways to become a good skier, but every which way requires hard work. American coaches are absolutely horrible at working together. Every coach seems to be fending for their own turf, to be their own chief of their own little tribe. This is the biggest problem, people are too proud to work together. So many people with good ideas; yet so many with an in-ability to listen to others. I don't know what Trond's views are or have been toward his staff, which is only part of what's probably being alluded to in this comment. For me, since the beginning I've found it hard to get excited about a team that has been fronted publicly, and is now being led, by someone who, by his own admission, mentally dropped out of school in junior high and whose major accomplishments in the past several years have been self-promotion into national ski team leadership and mass marketing of quack ski technique to fawners, the ignorant and those who ought to have known better. Along with the interview of Trond, I encourage all to read Dick (Richard) Taylor's book "No Pain, No Gain?," which can be bought directly from him (Gould Academy) or at Akers: http://www.akers-ski.com/Merchant2/m...ct_Cod e=7810. Jeff, this is the book that you should have published. Gene "DMK" wrote: Very good interview with Trond Nystad on fasterskier.com this morning. Probably going to **** off quite a few people but maybe that is what we need. Trond says most don't know what 850 hours of training looks like. Anyone out here know? Obviously the math is simple but how much of that is low level and how does someone like Trond define low level. Dave |
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Even if you count every second that is remotely connected to training,
850 hours is very, very hard to get. That averages out to 2 hours and 20 minutes per day, if you don't take any rest days. Take one rest day every week and it approaches 2:45 per day. I believe Trond is not trying to say that athletes have a different standard of counting hours, just that not enough people can even comprehend what 850 hours is like. It requires very talented athletes with a huge training background and a supportive training environment. |
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On 20 Mar 2006 14:51:14 -0800, "Nathan Schultz"
wrote: Even if you count every second that is remotely connected to training, 850 hours is very, very hard to get. That averages out to 2 hours and 20 minutes per day, if you don't take any rest days. Take one rest day every week and it approaches 2:45 per day. Yeah, I figured basically 3+ hours a day with two days "off" each week of simple recovery stuff -- half an hour or an hour on those days. But that's just average. I'd think that with this sort of program you'd have blocks of weeks of 4+ hours a day (20-25 hours a week, or maybe even a few with 30!) for awhile, and then down to an easy weeks of "just" 10 or 12 for key events or recovery. And a couple times a year maybe 4 or 5 hours (sick/injured or vacation). It's a lot. And doing it with enough intensity and recovery built in to get something out of it for high-level performance -- that takes a lot of discipline and support and a good environment. And two-a-days often. And you'd better like training and love being outside. And not waste time. If every workout involves standing around for an hour it won't work. If you're partying or staying up late it won't work -- you'll be sick or slow. I tried to 650 hrs/year for two seasons of bike racing and that was *hard.* And I was counting time spent strength training in the gym (but not stretching). I don't think I made it -- I slacked off big-time in the recovery month I took at the end of each season and ended up with about 620. And I don't think I was able to really digest that amount of training -- I was tired a lot of the time -- but I was able to hit a few peaks. And I had very little social life outside of sport. The upshot? I was an OK regional-level athlete. The numbers Nystand mention as critical to international success don't surprise me. I also think that big number of hours would be esp hard in sports where running is a component -- that really breaks down the body. Swimming and cycling are not so hard to just sit out there. Skiing not too bad, but what about dryland training for skiing? JFT **************************** Remove "remove" to reply Visit http://www.jt10000.com **************************** |
#9
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I agree. I'd brought up something different. I'd just read in a couple
places where skiers weren't counting certain portions of workouts that definitely seemed like part of the workout to me. Maybe it was in Pete's Momentum book, but I saw a report of someone else doing this, too. Maybe for people who are so used to training that THEY know when running should count toward their goals and when it shouldn't. I guess I can remember back that far ago to when running in the easier zones was just as easy as walking for me. But I recall Pete maybe not including his runs back down the mountain in with his hill-bounding workouts, or something like that. I could see that being excluded from the actual interval period. Oh well. The elites have their own ways. --JP |
#10
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I also once got inspired to step up the level, but didn't find it
physically tiring---but I probably still wasn't halfway to the big hours. 2-6 hrs a day, though. (I recall being part of a study during this time and the top XC skiers were indeed putting in many more hours.) I recall finding the social life to be humorous---I'd meet different people out on rides. Also, managing the daylight hours was funny at times: to get in a good meal, I'd stuff my pockets with food and go for a ride. I didn't have a totally detailed plan but I just naturally found myself avoiding downtime---I just liked to be outside doing things. I had a job---but also flexibility, being self-employed (making and selling books). So when it was lunchtime I wouldn't just sit and eat but would grab food and go for another ride. I was tired of being inside anyway. But that just seemed funny---it was sometimes my biggest meal of the day. Or I'd do 3 rides in a day---meeting up with 3 different groups of people. You can "take meetings" on a bike. Mentally, tho, things got a bit blurred. My body was often moving. It got so that I had to look down to see what I was doing: OK, I'm on a bike now. A whirl of several activities a day for a year solid can get to be just that: a whirl. XC does use a nice variety of activities for staying in shape, though, which keeps things fresher. As regards partying: training and wanting best performance sure makes partying a non-starter. I remember reading that the bike-racing McCormack brothers were wild Irish guys---then I found out that 'wild' meant like one beer a week during the off-season, none in summer. I also found that I really couldn't have a beer during race season. One beer and I'd go slower and may well catch a cold: it was surprising how sensitive the system became. --JP |
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