A Snow and ski forum. SkiBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » SkiBanter forum » Skiing Newsgroups » Alpine Skiing
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Crossover and Crossunder



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old April 26th 05, 12:47 AM
lal_truckee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

foot2foot wrote:
"VtSkier" wrote in message
...


IMO none of this stuff is particularly complicated taken
one concept at a time. It begins to get complicated for
the learner when concepts have to be combined. Then it
begins to make sense as they add miles, especially miles
with support from a good teacher. A good teacher in my
mind would more properly be called "a facilitator of learning"
to emphasize the positive and not be pedantic or authoritarian.

We'll never see that usage, but that's my dream of what the
word "teacher" will come to mean. This kind of individual has
been the best teachers in my life. 'Course I'm a bit anti-
authoritarian by nature anyway.




How about, you show the student how the mechanics of
skiing work, and let *them* decide how they want to use
the mechanics, instead of trying to fit the student in some box
of a form of turn.

Is that free enough?


Missed that "facilitator of learning" definition, huh?

However, I like the idea of traversing on the uphill ski pinky toe side.
Beats traversing on the uphill ski big toe side hands down. The latter
sounds real tough, if sustained - might require an additional leg joint
to get it to work.

On the other hand, it might just be the start of an early weight
transference to initiate a turn into the fall line off a traverse.
Ads
  #22  
Old April 26th 05, 01:01 AM
VtSkier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

foot2foot wrote:
"VtSkier" wrote in message
...

bdubya wrote:

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:30:31 -0700, "foot2foot"
wrote:



Crossover is extension at the moment of edge change.

Crossunder is retraction/flexion at the moment of edge change.



So is it then fair to say that one must be either crossed over OR
crossed under in order to turn?

bw
(PS- the brevity of your post was admirable.)


I also commented on this but don't remember any replies (not
that there weren't any, I just don't remember).

Thinking about what foot is saying above "feels" like what
I described. I said Crossover what what you did when
initiating a turn from a traverse. In fact extension is
what I'm doing at that time.

I said Crossunder was what you did when you linked turns
near the fall line. I would be retracting during at edge
change at that time.



You could extend or retract to make linked turns near
the fall line. Either way would work. People can and do.

Actually no, you wouldn't BE crossed over or crossed under


in order to turn, you would be crossing over or crossing
under in order to turn. Process rather than static position.



But, once you had crossed over or under, you would *be*
crossed *over*. Unless you have some other term for it,
this is what crossover has meant for many decades now.


To split hairs, you would need to cross over in order to
initiate a turn (process) but after the turn has been
initiated and you are turning, you would be in a crossed
over position (static as far as upper body is concerned).

Said another way, you need to cross over (under) to
initiate a turn and once the turn has begun your upper
body is inside the turn, the purpose of crossing over
is to get your body to the inside of the turn.
  #23  
Old April 26th 05, 03:22 AM
foot2foot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"lal_truckee" wrote in message
. ..
foot2foot wrote:
"VtSkier" wrote in message
...


IMO none of this stuff is particularly complicated taken
one concept at a time. It begins to get complicated for
the learner when concepts have to be combined. Then it
begins to make sense as they add miles, especially miles
with support from a good teacher. A good teacher in my
mind would more properly be called "a facilitator of learning"
to emphasize the positive and not be pedantic or authoritarian.

We'll never see that usage, but that's my dream of what the
word "teacher" will come to mean. This kind of individual has
been the best teachers in my life. 'Course I'm a bit anti-
authoritarian by nature anyway.




How about, you show the student how the mechanics of
skiing work, and let *them* decide how they want to use
the mechanics, instead of trying to fit the student in some box
of a form of turn.

Is that free enough?


Missed that "facilitator of learning" definition, huh?


If it were to be a little more clearly defined, maybe so, but
probably not.

Why would you let someone stumble around for days, or
months or years learning to ski by letting them just "discover"
how it works, when you could just tell them how the ski works
in a few minutes here and there?

However, I like the idea of traversing on the uphill ski pinky toe side.
Beats traversing on the uphill ski big toe side hands down. The latter
sounds real tough, if sustained - might require an additional leg joint to
get it to work.


It helps everything. The pinky edge traverse that is.


On the other hand, it might just be the start of an early weight
transference to initiate a turn into the fall line off a traverse.



After which you'd have two choices. Crossover or fall.

What about the definition I started off the thread with?

Yes or no?



  #24  
Old April 26th 05, 08:55 AM
MoonMan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

foot2foot wrote:
"bdubya" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:30:31 -0700, "foot2foot"
wrote:

Crossover is extension at the moment of edge change.

Crossunder is retraction/flexion at the moment of edge change.


So is it then fair to say that one must be either crossed over OR
crossed under in order to turn?

bw
(PS- the brevity of your post was admirable.)


Thank you. Yes no question. To turn right, your body simply
*must* be on the right side of the skis, however slight or
extreme. And also vice versa.


Please, please, pretty please with sugar on top, stop oversimplifying

--
Chris *:-)

You canna change the laws of physics Foot


  #25  
Old April 26th 05, 12:19 PM
foot2foot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"MoonMan" wrote in message

Please, please, pretty please with sugar on top, stop oversimplifying

--
Chris *:-)

You canna change the laws of physics Foot


Your body *has* to be on the inside of the turn. How else
can it be *when* you're turning?

Besides, what we need to do more than anything else on
earth or in ski land, *is* to keep it simple because it is.

What's with the lame Scottish stuff?



  #26  
Old April 26th 05, 01:28 PM
VtSkier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

foot2foot wrote:
"MoonMan" wrote in message


Please, please, pretty please with sugar on top, stop oversimplifying

--
Chris *:-)

You canna change the laws of physics Foot



Your body *has* to be on the inside of the turn. How else
can it be *when* you're turning?

Besides, what we need to do more than anything else on
earth or in ski land, *is* to keep it simple because it is.

What's with the lame Scottish stuff?


Star Trek reference.
  #27  
Old April 26th 05, 01:29 PM
ant
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

foot2foot wrote:
"MoonMan" wrote in message

Please, please, pretty please with sugar on top, stop oversimplifying
You canna change the laws of physics Foot


Your body *has* to be on the inside of the turn. How else
can it be *when* you're turning?


Actually, the platform under you, on the snow, is turning. You have to be on
the platform.

ant


  #28  
Old April 26th 05, 02:01 PM
yunlong
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

VtSkier wrote:
foot2foot wrote:
"VtSkier" wrote in message
...
VtSkier wrote:


Uphill/downhill is a reference that I probably wouldn't get
into except to say "go downhill" until the student got onto
terrain where it becomes important. By that time, I think,
the student would have the inside/outside concept pretty
well internalized.


Yea, you need it to talk about a traverse. It's still not
that complicated. Most of the weight on the downhill ski
when you traverse.


Not really, in traverse, press the uphill ski, the traverse turns
(changing direction, or slipping) downhill, and more pressure on
downhill ski, the traverse turns uphill or holds the level of the
slant; heard about "garland turn"?


Try traversing with all the weight on the pinky edge of
the uphill ski.


Have you done that yourself?

It is a standard practice of flatboarding; we call it "slant slipping."


No thanks.


Why? It is easier (less tiring) on long traverse, and the weight on the
uphill ski is already facilitating the "early weight transfer," thus
enables the skier to turn downhill whenever he/she wants it, and
slipping is safer technique than skidding.

The "slant slipping," is faster, more stable, and more maneuverable, so
it's a much versatile technique than simple "side slipping" or
skidding.


IS

  #29  
Old April 26th 05, 04:34 PM
Norm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

ant wrote:
foot2foot wrote:
"MoonMan" wrote in message

Please, please, pretty please with sugar on top, stop
oversimplifying You canna change the laws of physics Foot


Your body *has* to be on the inside of the turn. How else
can it be *when* you're turning?


Actually, the platform under you, on the snow, is turning.


Only if the world revolves around you.
Oh, right, you are an instructer. Never mind. ;-)


You have
to be on the platform.

ant



  #30  
Old April 26th 05, 05:58 PM
Bill Griffiths
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sources close to the investigation reveal that, on Mon, 25 Apr 2005
17:17:45 -0700, "foot2foot" wrote:

Thank you. Yes no question. To turn right, your body simply
*must* be on the right side of the skis, however slight or
extreme. And also vice versa.


Not body, center of mass.
Not skis, ski. Outside ski. Singular.
Not on all terrain.
Not at all speeds.
Not during the entire course of the turn.

So the one-word answer is "no."


--
Bill Griffiths
"The fool hath said in his heart, there is no such thing as justice." Hobbes
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Toe pressure is crap foot2foot Alpine Skiing 60 April 26th 05 07:03 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SkiBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.