Driving from Alta to Heavenly

uglymoney wrote:

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:15:46 GMT, "Dmitry"
wrote:



"AH" wrote



Thanks for the advice.. I'll certainly be really careful.. I'm not a crazy driver on normal roads, so if I'm in the snow I will
certainly be taking my time..


You're welcome.

Forgot one other thing. Just in case: do you realize that
the car you'll be getting is an automatic? I was stumped
when they told me I'll have to drive an automatic and there's
no way they can get me a stick shift car the first time I did
that.. So I had to learn to drive on totally different roads
with different traffic sighns and rules, and above that on a
type of car I've never tried had before..





Sadly, this is very true. Its a result of the US love affair with low
taxes on our gas and the fact that this comparatively cheap gas makes
larger engines more practical to drive around, even connected to a
slushbox, than overseas. In our big congested cities, manuals can be
a pain as well. I have read statistics lately that even in the UK and
Europe automatics are gaining popularity. Progress I suppose in one
form or another, but sad for those of us who like to row our own
boats.

When I went to Australia I specifically ordered a stick shift rental,
and they gave me an automatic. I was dissapointed. In the US its hard
to buy a car with a stick, much less rent one, and driving a left hand
stick would have been quite a fun change.

For me the only hard part about driving on the left hand side of the
road, was getting in and out of my car (I kept getting in the left
side of the car on accident). Also driving on gravel roads where
there was no white line to stay next to. I'd always be drifting over
to the right side of the road before catching myself.

I loved the traffic circles, and am confused as to why we don't have
them on US roads in any kind of numbers - the ones we do have are
generally "americanized" and not the real deal - though I think the
one at Vail is pretty much the real thing, though it is setup so that
you have to go slowly through it.

nate
02 Subaru Outback MT5 (manual transmission 5 speed)




There are still some places -- like Ireland -- where the manual still
rules. Even a dog of a car can be fun on those roads with a manual
transmission.

Dave M

"uglymoney" wrote

There is no doubt that chains are far superior in all ways when
installed. Chains will actually last and not break and give
incredible traction.

Cables are light, and compact and okay for making it past the chain
gang though. Unfortunately, they generally will fly apart after a few
miles, or a few uses.

Dunno, I've made it over Donner Pass no less than five times with
the same set of cable chains.

For a truck or SUV I'd be getting chains too, but for an expensive
car with low-profile tires - no way, either cables or spike spiders.

The Real Bev wrote:
uglymoney wrote:


There is no doubt that chains are far superior in all ways when
installed. Chains will actually last and not break and give
incredible traction.


Yes, but I actually broke one.

Yeah, the cross-links wear out (you're basically grinding steel on
silica as you drive) but you just slack your tighteners, install a
repair link, adjust the tighteners and you're good to go. Can't do that
with cables. Also the circumferal chains never break. Can't say that of
cables. Also the latches, if used correctly, never break. Can't say that
of cables.

And finally, when you've completely worn out your chains (which happens
eventually) you can salvage the remaining half or so good cross links to
repair your next set of chains when they wear out, thereby essentially
getting every third set for free.

By the way, someone above claimed that chains damage your tires. NOPE.
Happens ONLY if you install them backwards (there is a tire side and
road side, you know.) Get them the wrong way, the cross link connectors
will chew up your tires; get them the right way and no damage will be
done. It's easy, a no sweat operation that can be done in sleet/snow
high winds in just a few minutes. When I drove a Buick Century wagon as
my ski-mobile I used to have fun timing myself against the professional
chain monkeys and/or nearby cable chain wusses. Beat them every time.
(In fairness to the Pro installers, they had to work with the customer's
chains; which were often the wrong size, or not cut to fit before need,
or broken. We used to pass disparaging words about the customers, while
said customers remained unaware, ensconced inside their car with the
windows up.)

"lal_truckee" wrote in message
...


(snipped)
By the way, someone above claimed that chains damage your tires. NOPE.
Happens ONLY if you install them backwards (there is a tire side and road
side, you know.) Get them the wrong way, the cross link connectors will
chew up your tires; get them the right way and no damage will be done.
It's easy, a no sweat operation that can be done in sleet/snow high winds
in just a few minutes. When I drove a Buick Century wagon as my ski-mobile
I used to have fun timing myself against the professional chain monkeys
and/or nearby cable chain wusses. Beat them every time. (In fairness to
the Pro installers, they had to work with the customer's chains; which
were often the wrong size, or not cut to fit before need, or broken. We
used to pass disparaging words about the customers, while said customers
remained unaware, ensconced inside their car with the windows up.)

When chains are required, are the whips optional?

lal_truckee wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:
uglymoney wrote:


There is no doubt that chains are far superior in all ways when
installed. Chains will actually last and not break and give
incredible traction.


Yes, but I actually broke one.

Yeah, the cross-links wear out (you're basically grinding steel on
silica as you drive) but you just slack your tighteners, install a
repair link, adjust the tighteners and you're good to go. Can't do that
with cables. Also the circumferal chains never break. Can't say that of
cables. Also the latches, if used correctly, never break. Can't say that
of cables.

And finally, when you've completely worn out your chains (which happens
eventually) you can salvage the remaining half or so good cross links to
repair your next set of chains when they wear out, thereby essentially
getting every third set for free.

By the way, someone above claimed that chains damage your tires. NOPE.
Happens ONLY if you install them backwards (there is a tire side and
road side, you know.) Get them the wrong way, the cross link connectors
will chew up your tires; get them the right way and no damage will be
done.

That means that the ends of the connectors point away from the tire.

It's easy, a no sweat operation that can be done in sleet/snow
high winds in just a few minutes. When I drove a Buick Century wagon as
my ski-mobile I used to have fun timing myself against the professional
chain monkeys and/or nearby cable chain wusses. Beat them every time.
(In fairness to the Pro installers, they had to work with the customer's
chains; which were often the wrong size, or not cut to fit before need,
or broken.

OTOH, you had floor jacks. Even the cheap little ones are better than
not having one.

We used to pass disparaging words about the customers, while
said customers remained unaware, ensconced inside their car with the
windows up.)

Just a minute. First you said "they" and then you said "we"? Is it
possible that in a former life YOU were a chain monkey?

I was slow, but at least they never came off. And I was lucky enough to
find a pair of Channellocks lying right next to my car -- exactly the
tool I needed for the balky connector.

--
Cheers, Bev
xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoo
"There are only two reasons to sit in the back row of an airplane:
Either you have diarrhoea, or you're anxious to meet people who do."
-- Rich Jeni

The Real Bev wrote:

OTOH, you had floor jacks. Even the cheap little ones are better than
not having one.

OK, I'm going to reveal the secret, but only if you promise to never
tell anyone. OK?

Get a 4x10 piece of 1/4 ply or so, screw a 4 in piece of a 2x4 in the
middle of it; lay it down 2x4 up, lay your chains over it properly
oriented, and drive up on the 2x4. Voila, you can manipulate the chains
easily. Whole thing fits in the chain box. No sweat.

We used to pass disparaging words about the customers, while
said customers remained unaware, ensconced inside their car with the
windows up.)

Just a minute. First you said "they" and then you said "we"? Is it
possible that in a former life YOU were a chain monkey?

Me, a monkey? That was David, Micky, Michael, and Peter; not me.

lal_truckee wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:

OTOH, you had floor jacks. Even the cheap little ones are better than
not having one.

OK, I'm going to reveal the secret, but only if you promise to never
tell anyone. OK?

Get a 4x10 piece of 1/4 ply or so, screw a 4 in piece of a 2x4 in the
middle of it; lay it down 2x4 up, lay your chains over it properly
oriented, and drive up on the 2x4. Voila, you can manipulate the chains
easily. Whole thing fits in the chain box. No sweat.

I made a thing like that out of decreasing lengths of 1x6 nailed into a
little ramp with a groove on top. Looked like the world's ugliest wood
shop project, but it worked. Turns out there's a cute little plastic
thing you can buy that works the same way. Got one at a yard sale
(unused, this is SoCal) and I haven't used it yet either. I guess it's
lighter than a floor jack, but not easier.

We used to pass disparaging words about the customers, while
said customers remained unaware, ensconced inside their car with the
windows up.)

Just a minute. First you said "they" and then you said "we"? Is it
possible that in a former life YOU were a chain monkey?

Me, a monkey? That was David, Micky, Michael, and Peter; not me.

Sorry, my misteak. BTW, they had the Monkeemobile at the LA County Fair
this year. Spiffy.

--
Cheers, Bev
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity
is not thus handicapped."
-- Elbert Hubbard, American author

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:05:11 -0700, lal_truckee
wrote:

The Real Bev wrote:

OTOH, you had floor jacks. Even the cheap little ones are better than
not having one.

OK, I'm going to reveal the secret, but only if you promise to never
tell anyone. OK?

Get a 4x10 piece of 1/4 ply or so, screw a 4 in piece of a 2x4 in the
middle of it; lay it down 2x4 up, lay your chains over it properly
oriented, and drive up on the 2x4. Voila, you can manipulate the chains
easily. Whole thing fits in the chain box. No sweat.


Must be one huge chain box.
Oh, wait..that's inches. Ne'mind.

bw

"The Real Bev" wrote in message
...


OTOH, you had floor jacks. Even the cheap little ones are better than
not having one.

When I lived in Tahoe and had occasion to use chains once and a while I just
used a 2x4 block.

As a Truckee resident where my neigborhood's snow load is an official
360" /year I've learned it's false economy to skimp on snow tires/chains.

I'm also tired of dealing with bozos who come up in 2WD vehicles in
blizzards, evading chain controls, who either tie up traffic going
5 mph in compensation or who risk crunching me in their spinout.

Though cables aren't as good as chains they might be the only things
that fit on sportier models.

John Reece
Truckee, CA