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Turning on flat skis?



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 19th 09, 02:38 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
VtSkier[_3_]
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Posts: 344
Default Turning on flat skis?

VtSkier wrote:
lal_truckee wrote:
VtSkier wrote:

By the way, I won't be making it to your fair state
this winter.


oh?


Right. It's the economy.


However, next year is looking better.
Ads
  #22  
Old November 19th 09, 02:40 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
taichiskiing
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Posts: 1,256
Default Turning on flat skis?

On Nov 18, 4:04 pm, Alan Baker wrote:
In article
,

taichiskiing wrote:
My guess what he tries to say is that at the best you get 2% of pure
carving and 98% of skidding/sideslipping turn even in racing. He
doesn't seem to distinguish "skidding" and "slipping" neither, but he
does occasionally use "slipping edges" to make "slipping turns."


Your guess is (unsurprisingly) completely wrong.


No, based on our previous experience, it's not my guess is wrong but
your little knowledge is acting up, and that is not what unsurprised.

He's saying that there are times when in order to get around the gate,
you must abandon carving even though it means losing speed.


Cannot read the annotations, eh?

His "turning on flat skis" is another example of "line-skiing." He may
not come to admit, but he is a flatboarder/flatskier.


Nope. He's a good skier.


Yup, only good skiers do flatboarding/Flatskiing.

Methinks that he may have issues with 'modern' "teaching" as well as
he derides the pure carve and RRT turns, or he just reinvented the
classic--skidded-turns, more practical.


Modern teaching hasn't abandoned skidded turns.


Modern teaching may not have abandoned skidded turns, but half-baked
gapper instructors have.

He teaches the beginner parallel turn by teaching her sideslipping
first,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMgjb5z71pE
in Chinese (original),
or


http://www.youtube.com/user/SKIPANDA...W&hl=zh-TW#p/u


Which is precisely what modern teaching does.


Show me one doctrine/clip that you CSIA teaches parallel turns that
begins with sideslipping.


IS
  #23  
Old November 19th 09, 02:53 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
taichiskiing
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Posts: 1,256
Default Turning on flat skis?

On Nov 19, 5:01 am, VtSkier wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
In article ,

......
It is precisely what the CSIA has been teaching for some time, now.


1. Absolutely not new. We called it 'chicken plow'
back in the 60's. A great way to get out of trouble.


A lost art?

2. An astonishing number of people around here don't
know how to do it effectively when they get into
trouble. You should see all the people who *try* to
wedge/snowplow through bumps. It's a disaster.


Absolutely, I've run into quite a few people who came to me want to
learn how to ski bumps don't know how to make sideslip traverses, or
do the sideslipping brakes properly, because they have never been
taught, or taught properly on sideslips, and I ending up have to start
them all over from the beginning.


IS

Ps sorry to hear that you won't make it to the west coast this season;
have a good season in NE anyway.
  #24  
Old November 19th 09, 02:55 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
taichiskiing
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Posts: 1,256
Default Turning on flat skis?

On Nov 18, 5:28 pm, downhill wrote:
where did you think he was going to go, he comes back about every 2
months with an other method to try to prove his point that still makes
no sense.
The use of rational thought and the ability to present a point using
standard english and proper rules of physics and mathematics that is
understood by anybody is not one of tie cheeses abilities.

I looked parts of this video and the only time his skis were flat was
when he transitioned from one turn to an other


"I’m aware sideslipping (skidding) has become a dirty word,
but just try to ski without it. It is as practical as replacing the
steering wheel on your car with one single preset radius turn.
Nevertheless, if you, my friendly hefty ski instructor, intend to link
carving turns to impress the girls on the sun deck, then make sure you
use recreational extra narrow waist skis, make sure you always stick
to precisely the same radius turn, make sure no tree nor big fat lady
stands in your tracks’ rails, make sure you choose a shallow green
slope, freshly groomed, evenly flat, no moguls, then feel free to pick
up speed, lean close to the ground as you carve and, most importantly,
smile for the camera. She might be blonde, but you’ve still got it
made. Showing off is the only practical use for full fledged carving:
a professional skill for the bunny slope. Take our show off instructor
to a regular World Cup slope, not even speaking of going through the
gates, and watch how much is left of his arrogant carving! Watch him
skiing in moguls, trees, deep snow! The craving to carve is a quirk.
What
started as an ideal ended up as a crippling isunderstanding, as we
have humiliated millions of ski students by foisting on them to either
carve or disgrace themselves skidding through their turns.

If you’d rather ski for fun and glee, keep on freely skidding on
mostly flat boards, as you always have, and feel proud of your
efficiency and stylish poise.

Year 2009, in Chamonix, by a brisk fall dawn"--skipanda


IS
  #25  
Old November 19th 09, 03:40 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Walt
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Posts: 1,188
Default Turning on flat skis?

VtSkier wrote:
Walt wrote:

Of course, there are other techniques that may work better.

Anyway, you can read his screed at
http://www.skipanda.com/Ski%20Carvin...%20Article.pdf
Sounds like a combination of footer, itchy, and the unabomber....


Oh, now I get it, he was poo-pooing carving.


More screed at
http://www.skipanda.com/espace_telec...20Complete.pdf

It's full of gems like:

Look forward for the future,
when you can wedeln
with an edge set, a rebound
and an “avalement”.

It's almost a haiku.

And a video of him doing the wedeln:
http://www.skipanda.com/video/extrait_uk/ext09.htm

//Walt
//
//...I'm only here for the comedy at this point...








And then the instructor guy was dressed in an
80's body bag.


Where did your 60's ski instructor get an 80's fart bag? Did he have
a time machine?


Nah, he was an 80's skier. Technique was the same
since skis were (basically) the same. In the 60's
we wore either stretch pants (great on women,
especially after the addition of spandex) or
jeans sprayed with Scotch Guard (known as Bagners).


//Walt

  #26  
Old November 19th 09, 04:18 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
VtSkier[_3_]
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Posts: 344
Default Turning on flat skis?

taichiskiing wrote:
On Nov 19, 5:01 am, VtSkier wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
In article ,

.....
It is precisely what the CSIA has been teaching for some time, now.

1. Absolutely not new. We called it 'chicken plow'
back in the 60's. A great way to get out of trouble.


A lost art?

2. An astonishing number of people around here don't
know how to do it effectively when they get into
trouble. You should see all the people who *try* to
wedge/snowplow through bumps. It's a disaster.


Absolutely, I've run into quite a few people who came to me want to
learn how to ski bumps don't know how to make sideslip traverses, or
do the sideslipping brakes properly, because they have never been
taught, or taught properly on sideslips, and I ending up have to start
them all over from the beginning.


IS

Ps sorry to hear that you won't make it to the west coast this season;
have a good season in NE anyway.


Oh, I will, though it's getting off to
a REALLY bad start. Most of the surrounding
areas won't be open for Thanksgiving. That's
bad.

Killington will be open. That's worse.

There will be maybe three white stripes of
death down the mountain (all funneling into
one stripe near the bottom) and all the crazy
skiers that usually went elsewhere on bird-
day will be at K trying to ski with many
hundred others.

I won't go near the place.
  #27  
Old November 19th 09, 04:25 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
VtSkier[_3_]
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Posts: 344
Default Turning on flat skis?

Walt wrote:
VtSkier wrote:
Walt wrote:

Of course, there are other techniques that may work better.

Anyway, you can read his screed at
http://www.skipanda.com/Ski%20Carvin...%20Article.pdf
Sounds like a combination of footer, itchy, and the unabomber....


Oh, now I get it, he was poo-pooing carving.


More screed at
http://www.skipanda.com/espace_telec...20Complete.pdf

It's full of gems like:

Look forward for the future,
when you can wedeln
with an edge set, a rebound
and an “avalement”.

It's almost a haiku.


Yes and an exposition of "the old way"
which really isn't so bad.


And a video of him doing the wedeln:
http://www.skipanda.com/video/extrait_uk/ext09.htm


Yes, I know we had this discussion last year.

In the 60's (when wedeln was born) this
would NOT have been wedeln, simply because
there WAS braking. It would have been
'short swing' turns. Linked turns, braking,
no traverse between turns.

Wedeln = 'wiggle' IMO the turns are not
short enough in this video and there is TOO
MUCH edge to be called 'wedeln'.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


//Walt
//
//...I'm only here for the comedy at this point...


Ah, shoot, Walt, you provide some of the comedy.
Keep it up.
  #28  
Old November 19th 09, 04:41 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Walt
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Posts: 1,188
Default Turning on flat skis?

VtSkier wrote:
Walt wrote:
And a video of him doing the wedeln:
http://www.skipanda.com/video/extrait_uk/ext09.htm


Yes, I know we had this discussion last year.

In the 60's (when wedeln was born) this
would NOT have been wedeln, simply because
there WAS braking. It would have been
'short swing' turns. Linked turns, braking,
no traverse between turns.

Wedeln = 'wiggle' IMO the turns are not
short enough in this video and there is TOO
MUCH edge to be called 'wedeln'.



But you've got to admit that it's kinda cute the way he wiggles his butt
in that one-piece.

//Walt
  #29  
Old November 19th 09, 06:24 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
taichiskiing
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Posts: 1,256
Default Turning on flat skis?

On Nov 19, 8:18 am, VtSkier wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:
On Nov 19, 5:01 am, VtSkier wrote:

......
Ps sorry to hear that you won't make it to the west coast this season;
have a good season in NE anyway.


Oh, I will, though it's getting off to
a REALLY bad start. Most of the surrounding
areas won't be open for Thanksgiving. That's
bad.

Killington will be open. That's worse.

There will be maybe three white stripes of
death down the mountain (all funneling into
one stripe near the bottom) and all the crazy
skiers that usually went elsewhere on bird-
day will be at K trying to ski with many
hundred others.

I won't go near the place.


"Cat Trap," iirc?

Well, Heavenly is scheduled to open tomorrow. Last year's opening day
(the day after Thanksgiving) was a zoo, unskiable, but this year, one
week earlier and with impending snow storm, the opening days crowds
are not quite predictable, but I'm going anyway, don't wanna wait.
Actually, I'm going to sharpen my skis' edges and hot wax them right
now.

'later,
IS
  #30  
Old November 19th 09, 07:22 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
VtSkier[_3_]
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Posts: 344
Default Turning on flat skis?

taichiskiing wrote:

Actually, I'm going to sharpen my skis' edges and hot wax them right
now.


Really? Will this be your one time this year?


'later,
IS

 




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