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#1
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Probability of Getting Good Race Skis at Small Ski Shops ??
I'm starting this discussion thread so hopefully I and other r.s.n
readers can learn more about how racing skis are distributed from the manufacturer to the consumer. I'll keep this discussion "ski vendor generic" so as not to offend anyone. I don't know much about ski manufacturer distribution models. But I know a lot about buying skis ... I've been buying skis for over 30 years. During this time I can safely say, the best skis I've ever owned I either bought in Europe, or bought 2nd hand from a former European national team member. I've never had much luck buying great skis from a small local ski shop in the US. This leads me to visualize that a typical ski company distribution scheme as such (please ski company reps ... correct me if I'm wrong): 1) A batch of skis are made in Europe. 2) World Cup/ Euro national teams pick over the skis. 3) Euro clubs pick over the skis. 4) Big Euro sports shops pick over the skis. 5) What's left is sent to other places in the world, like the US 6) US National and vendor sponsored teams pick over US skis 7) Large US ski shops and ski service companies pick over skis 8) US Universities and clubs pick over skis 9) Whatever is left over ... is then shipped to small retail stores The ordering of steps 1 to 8 above may be off ... but my main point is that it sure seems like the best skis must be long gone before the skis that go to local shops are shipped. Actually, this distribution model would not be that bad ... if it wasn't for my next point: quality control. It seems quality control for ski manufacturers is still in the stone age. It amazes me, and shop owners, what can show up at local ski shops in Anchorage. Skis with identical serial numbers that don't have cambers that are even close. Skis that are warped and would take stone-grinding off part of the base and into the core to flatten the ski! I'm sure skis are difficult to make. But they can't be any more difficult than computers, cell phones, TVs, etc. All of these devices, like skis, were once hand made ... but then the manufacturers got their act together. Imagine if you went to buy a Dell 8400 computer and the salesperson said - "Why don't you squeeze these 4 keyboards to see what fits you best". "Oh no - you can't turn the computer on and try it!" That's the way skis are still sold. After 30 years of composite ski manufacturing, you'd think that two skis could be made exactly the same. But that doesn't seem to be the case. And because of this lack of quality control, there is a need for this hierarchal "pick-over" of skis. And the result seems to be that the full-price-paying end customer at the small ski shop cash register in the US ... is often screwed. Your thoughts ...? Tim Kelley |
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#2
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"Tim Kelley" wrote in message oups.com... 1) A batch of skis are made in Europe. 2) World Cup/ Euro national teams pick over the skis. 3) Euro clubs pick over the skis. 4) Big Euro sports shops pick over the skis. 5) What's left is sent to other places in the world, like the US 6) US National and vendor sponsored teams pick over US skis 7) Large US ski shops and ski service companies pick over skis 8) US Universities and clubs pick over skis 9) Whatever is left over ... is then shipped to small retail stores Heard before about skis being hand picked at the factory for world cup skiers; always thought this was a urban legend... And the result seems to be that the full-price-paying end customer at the small ski shop cash register in the US ... is often screwed. "ABC" of marketing. Buy brand "A" because that's the one pros are skiing on. Get grade "B" because the pros get 1st choice. Pay lots of "Cash" because you must also pay for pros who get sponsored. BarryT |
#3
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I think there is at least one thing out of order on your list. Sometimes
the Canadian (and probably the American) national teams send people to the factories to pick over skis. That would move them further towards the top of the list. They can probably also be more specific about ski characteristics and base materials when dealing directly at the factory. Scott "Tim Kelley" wrote in message oups.com... I'm starting this discussion thread so hopefully I and other r.s.n readers can learn more about how racing skis are distributed from the manufacturer to the consumer. I'll keep this discussion "ski vendor generic" so as not to offend anyone. I don't know much about ski manufacturer distribution models. But I know a lot about buying skis ... I've been buying skis for over 30 years. During this time I can safely say, the best skis I've ever owned I either bought in Europe, or bought 2nd hand from a former European national team member. I've never had much luck buying great skis from a small local ski shop in the US. This leads me to visualize that a typical ski company distribution scheme as such (please ski company reps ... correct me if I'm wrong): 1) A batch of skis are made in Europe. 2) World Cup/ Euro national teams pick over the skis. 3) Euro clubs pick over the skis. 4) Big Euro sports shops pick over the skis. 5) What's left is sent to other places in the world, like the US 6) US National and vendor sponsored teams pick over US skis 7) Large US ski shops and ski service companies pick over skis 8) US Universities and clubs pick over skis 9) Whatever is left over ... is then shipped to small retail stores The ordering of steps 1 to 8 above may be off ... but my main point is that it sure seems like the best skis must be long gone before the skis that go to local shops are shipped. Actually, this distribution model would not be that bad ... if it wasn't for my next point: quality control. It seems quality control for ski manufacturers is still in the stone age. It amazes me, and shop owners, what can show up at local ski shops in Anchorage. Skis with identical serial numbers that don't have cambers that are even close. Skis that are warped and would take stone-grinding off part of the base and into the core to flatten the ski! I'm sure skis are difficult to make. But they can't be any more difficult than computers, cell phones, TVs, etc. All of these devices, like skis, were once hand made ... but then the manufacturers got their act together. Imagine if you went to buy a Dell 8400 computer and the salesperson said - "Why don't you squeeze these 4 keyboards to see what fits you best". "Oh no - you can't turn the computer on and try it!" That's the way skis are still sold. After 30 years of composite ski manufacturing, you'd think that two skis could be made exactly the same. But that doesn't seem to be the case. And because of this lack of quality control, there is a need for this hierarchal "pick-over" of skis. And the result seems to be that the full-price-paying end customer at the small ski shop cash register in the US ... is often screwed. Your thoughts ...? Tim Kelley |
#4
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Tim Kelley wrote:
1) A batch of skis are made in Europe. 2) World Cup/ Euro national teams pick over the skis. 3) Euro clubs pick over the skis. 4) Big Euro sports shops pick over the skis. 5) What's left is sent to other places in the world, like the US 6) US National and vendor sponsored teams pick over US skis 7) Large US ski shops and ski service companies pick over skis 8) US Universities and clubs pick over skis 9) Whatever is left over ... is then shipped to small retail stores T you left out the citizen racers, sponsored or otherwise who get 'proform' from the distributors or in some cases from the factory. about identical skis: some manufacturers makes skis and then try to match them up later. the huge vagaries of manufacturing provide great variety, different cambers for different skiers. there are some poorly matched pairs sent out (see nordic ski research). atomic claims to be able to make identical skis on their computer controlled molds. they have to dial in variety to fit different skiers. i do know that down stream, at the us retail end, i have never seen a mismatched atomic even in their touring lines. i have seen some terrible mismatches in the other brands. we don't sell those. i hope they get sent back. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#5
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I read RSN every once in a while, mostly to keep a thumb on the pulse
of master's skiing in america... You guys are the life blood of our sport and its great to see such an enthusiastic bunch... This is the first time I've replied to any message on RSN and Im doing it because I wanted to clear up what Mr. Kelley had said about the idea of 'picking over' skis- mainly because its insulting that you think our national team gets skis after a european ski shop. come on, man. in case you didn't notice our national team is extremely competetive now... -the first people to get skis are the superstars for each brand. they are number one priority for the ski companies. these skis are picked by the company's world cup representative and the superstar's wax technician. -national teams are the next to get skis. typically the wax technicians will travel to the factory to pick skis. yes, there is a race room where the 'best' skis are kept. yes, americans get their skis from the same room as the norwegians. -the next people to pick skis are the ski company's race service people, for example eli brown with fischer or rick halling with atomic. these guys pick skis for the athletes sponsored by that company but not taken care of by the national team. these guys get skis from the same room as the national team. - skis are shipped to ski shops independent of anything going on the top racer skis. in the us what typically happens is the company will ship ALL of skis to an american distributor who then ships skis to individual ski shops. the skis you buy in the us are the same skis as bjorn is buying in norway and fritz is buying in germany. you have the same chances of getting a good pair and a bad pair. the only possible difference is that more people in norway/germany know how to pick different skis for different people. thats why you guys need someone like zach caldwell picking skis for you. don't sell american skiing short. its disrespectful to our top young athletes who are not far from the top. |
#6
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Who wrote this? I don't think the point of Tim's post was that US ski team people get bad skis - his point was that shops don't provide good skis to the average consumer. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but let's stick to the point Tim was making. Rob Bradlee --- americanxc wrote: I read RSN every once in a while, mostly to keep a thumb on the pulse of master's skiing in america... You guys are the life blood of our sport and its great to see such an enthusiastic bunch... This is the first time I've replied to any message on RSN and Im doing it because I wanted to clear up what Mr. Kelley had said about the idea of 'picking over' skis- mainly because its insulting that you think our national team gets skis after a european ski shop. come on, man. in case you didn't notice our national team is extremely competetive now... -the first people to get skis are the superstars for each brand. they are number one priority for the ski companies. these skis are picked by the company's world cup representative and the superstar's wax technician. -national teams are the next to get skis. typically the wax technicians will travel to the factory to pick skis. yes, there is a race room where the 'best' skis are kept. yes, americans get their skis from the same room as the norwegians. -the next people to pick skis are the ski company's race service people, for example eli brown with fischer or rick halling with atomic. these guys pick skis for the athletes sponsored by that company but not taken care of by the national team. these guys get skis from the same room as the national team. - skis are shipped to ski shops independent of anything going on the top racer skis. in the us what typically happens is the company will ship ALL of skis to an american distributor who then ships skis to individual ski shops. the skis you buy in the us are the same skis as bjorn is buying in norway and fritz is buying in germany. you have the same chances of getting a good pair and a bad pair. the only possible difference is that more people in norway/germany know how to pick different skis for different people. thats why you guys need someone like zach caldwell picking skis for you. don't sell american skiing short. its disrespectful to our top young athletes who are not far from the top. ===== Rob Bradlee Java, C++, Perl, XML, OOAD, Linux, and Unix Training |
#7
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look...
sponsored, non national team, athletes are getting skis picked by the manufacturer's race service rep(eli brown, jim fredericks, rick halling). citizen racers and people buying on pro-form are getting skis no different than those sold in stores. no pro-form skier is getting skis chosen from the factory. that would be a collosal waste of time... secondly, of course the american and canadian teams are sending their wax tech's over to pick skis directly from the factory. they are no less or no more priority than any other national team. HOWEVER, some individual athletes are higher priority than others. my point is this, our national team skiers are getting skis as good or better than any other national team out there. the absolute best skis go to the superstars, like sommerfelt, fredricksson, auckland, freeman... why do i care to make this point? because respecting american xc skiing starts at the very bottom. if young kids hear you guys talking about how some ski shop in norway gets better skis than our national team, he's never gonna think he has a chance and then we are back to where we started- in the 90's when scoring a world cup point was nothing short of a miracle. support american ski racing. |
#8
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AmericanXC, whoever you are - like Rob says (see below) ... your are
off on an angry tangent and have missed the point of this discussion. What does your response have to do with the lack of quality control on the part of ski companies? Ski companies still have the wooden ski mindset that it's okay for every composite ski to be different. They are way behind the curve in quality control. Go to a bike store and their are wall-to-wall composite bike parts of great quality. If you want a carbon fiber crank you don't have to test 4 to find the right one, like you do with skis. Composite bike frames, parts, etc. are basically all the same due to decent quality control. Same with ski poles. Quality control with these products are MUCH better than with skis. If you want to support ameircan skiing - tell ski manufactures to stop spending money on marketing BS and put the money into better quality control. That way skis would be of better general quality FOR ALL, prices would go down (like they have for composite bikes), more kids could affored to ski and less parents would end up accidentally buying garbage skis for their kids. Why don't you go back and read the original post. Thanks, Tim |
#9
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my point is this, our national team skiers are getting skis as good or
better than any other national team out there. the absolute best skis go to the superstars, like sommerfelt, fredricksson, auckland, freeman... Gotta admit that Johnny Spillane sure looked like he had rocket skis when he won his gold in Nordic Combined at the Worlds. Eric Chandler |
#10
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