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#1
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help with breakable crust
I am a Randonee skier, Dynafit boots & bindings on K2 AK Launchers (same as
K2 Work Stinx) fats. No problem skiing powder, ice, groomed, crud, but breakable crust is a real challenge. My skis bust through, then are "in their channel," and I go into totally defensive mode and ski like it's my first time. I've tried jump-turning (which I'm not too good at) with mixed success, and when I'm alone, which is half the time, I resort to some sort of power snow-plow/stem christy. Monday at Castle Peak I was doing my usual crust floundering, some guy came whipping by, turned like it was groomed and was gone. How do you do that? Kind thanks. Bill Maas [remove "remove" from email address] |
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#2
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William Maas schrieb:
I am a Randonee skier, Dynafit boots & bindings on K2 AK Launchers (same as K2 Work Stinx) fats. No problem skiing powder, ice, groomed, crud, but breakable crust is a real challenge. My skis bust through, then are "in their channel," and I go into totally defensive mode and ski like it's my first time. I've tried jump-turning (which I'm not too good at) with mixed success, and when I'm alone, which is half the time, I resort to some sort of power snow-plow/stem christy. Monday at Castle Peak I was doing my usual crust floundering, some guy came whipping by, turned like it was groomed and was gone. How do you do that? First of all: There is always a crust where skiing is nearly impossible. The better ones can ski what to those with inferior technique might seem impossible. Anyway, general rule is speed (and, consequentely, courage), if the crust is breaking. Lean in to the curve, charge both skis in an equal way. It will help. I succeed in doing that in fixed heel skiing but only a little bit with telemark :-(( If the crust is so so, on the limit between keeping and breaking, then there is required sensibility (and possibly not so much speed). Greetings, Ulrich |
#3
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article , William Maas wrote: I am a Randonee skier, Dynafit boots & bindings on K2 AK Launchers (same as K2 Work Stinx) fats. No problem skiing powder, ice, groomed, crud, but breakable crust is a real challenge. My skis bust through, then are "in their channel," and I go into totally defensive mode and ski like it's my first time. I've tried jump-turning (which I'm not too good at) with mixed success, and when I'm alone, which is half the time, I resort to some sort of power snow-plow/stem christy. Monday at Castle Peak I was doing my usual crust floundering, some guy came whipping by, turned like it was groomed and was gone. How do you do that? _ Attitude mostly. Those skis are plenty beefy enough to handle breakable crust, you just need a few tricks and the confidence to attack it. Jump turning is not really what you want to do, sometimes it's what you have to do when the ski isn't stiff enough to track through the crust. _ Basically, you need to keep your weight centered and both skis turning. Resort skiers have a terrible time with this because they've never learned two footed skiing and stiff alpine boots are a crutch for keeping your weight centered. If you can ski crud well then you should be able to manage breakable crust, which you can think of as REALLY BAD CRUD. _ Two footed skiing with soft boots will teach you the ankle flex required. You need to be able to pressure the fronts of your boots without taking weight off the heel, (i.e. you want to pressure the front cuff and still drive weight through the heel.) In particular you want to do this on the inside ski. _ The following drill might be useful. Unbuckle your boots and make turns on soft snow. Concentrate on making the inner ski of the turn arc and carve as well as the outer, experiment with shifting the weight back and forth between the two skis. _ BTW, this is all horribly old school and would probably get me thrown out of any PSIA class, but it's tools and imagery that works for me. _ Booker C. Bense -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBQYllp2TWTAjn5N/lAQEFGgP/bxcZD8J+0sE/U6zeLvrVhAQy8+hU/9Rf ocNdrEyJx565UfEtr+h82CjSVnbY9Df9mmBMoR2Ymish+8LHXf xSuavhXs+WlRlK BPpKLX4x4uelNBQHw89QMY67XqZNH/dPCXzbVtyL/asX3Repu97uVtIHmnAlcsxp IfFsmPcdUw4= =DQvF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#4
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"William Maas" wrote in
: I am a Randonee skier, Dynafit boots & bindings on K2 AK Launchers (same as K2 Work Stinx) fats. No problem skiing powder, ice, groomed, crud, but breakable crust is a real challenge. My skis bust through, then are "in their channel," and I go into totally defensive mode and ski like it's my first time. I've tried jump-turning (which I'm not too good at) with mixed success, and when I'm alone, which is half the time, I resort to some sort of power snow-plow/stem christy. Monday at Castle Peak I was doing my usual crust floundering, some guy came whipping by, turned like it was groomed and was gone. How do you do that? I agree with the previous answers. One thing they didn't mention is that you have to decide (continually) whether you're going to try to stay on top or go through and ski underneath the crust. To stay on top keep your skis flat, be delicate, weight on both skis. When you suspect that's about to stop working be brutal - break through deliberately before it happens accidentally. Bounce your weight on one ski (but careful not to end up with one ski above and one below!). You get thrown around a lot on crust, and your boots aren't giving you much support. The guy who passed you might have had stiffer boots. He might also have been lighter or on fatter skis, and better able to stay on top, or heavier with thinner skis and properly established under the crust. If so, there would be conditions where he would have more problems than you. Of course, he might be a better skier too :-) Jeremy |
#5
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Yes, my theory is that if you're going to break thru, then put all your
weight on one ski. Jeremy Mortimer wrote break through deliberately before it happens accidentally. Bounce your weight on one ski . . . Or at least Step the new ski into fall line with full weight commitment onto it -- to make sure sure it brakes through and bends into reverse-camber to start turning. . . . (but careful not to end up with one ski above and one below!) I'm not seeing that as so bad -- so long as the ski above is _completely_ above: either riding on the surface or up in the air. But if the snow underneath is very soft and deep, that would get problematic. I have an old video of Mike Hattrup skiing some heinous-looking stuff making turns on his outside ski, with his inside ski up in the air. (Then he catches an edge on his outside ski, so he makes his next turn with all his weight on the inside ski.) So another success factor is well-practiced quick-recovery moves, some of them so quick that the observer does not notice them as recovery moves (except in slow-motion video?). And serious _strength_ in the muscles used to recover to a stable centered position -- of course the obvious leg and hip muscles, but also back and abdominal muscles. (Stiff boots do not solve the problem of re-centering after your chest and shoulders got flung down and forward.) you have to decide whether you're going to try to stay on top or go through and ski underneath the crust. To stay on top keep your skis flat, be delicate, weight on both skis. Yes -- in the barely-supportive situation, need to use very soft initiation, always keeping equal weighting between the two skis. Very difficult to achieve with the Telemark turn. Much higher probability of success with a gentle-wedge-initiation stem-christie turn. Ken |
#6
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Booker C. Bense wrote
. . . both skis turning . . . two footed skiing Two-ski skiing is well worth learning -- notably for enjoying deep powder. And it's what I used to try to do to handle some breakable crust. But then an excellent German skier told me that he had found that one-ski turning was better for non-supportive crust and variable-consistency crud. (for which the European Alps offer frequent practice opportunities.) The basic problem with putting weight on both skis in variable-speed / variable-depth snow is that one ski does one thing at the same time the other ski does something rather different -- and it's real tricky to manage that. That's why a snowboard is so great for tricky variable crust + crud. And that's why the Telemark turn is _not_ so good for breakable crust. Even though at first you'd think its longer "wheelbase" for better fore-aft stability would make it better for recovery from the impact of snow-variations. Ken ___________________________________ Booker C. Bense wrote In article , William Maas wrote: I am a Randonee skier, Dynafit boots & bindings on K2 AK Launchers (same as K2 Work Stinx) fats. No problem skiing powder, ice, groomed, crud, but breakable crust is a real challenge. My skis bust through, then are "in their channel," and I go into totally defensive mode and ski like it's my first time. I've tried jump-turning (which I'm not too good at) with mixed success, and when I'm alone, which is half the time, I resort to some sort of power snow-plow/stem christy. Monday at Castle Peak I was doing my usual crust floundering, some guy came whipping by, turned like it was groomed and was gone. How do you do that? _ Attitude mostly. Those skis are plenty beefy enough to handle breakable crust, you just need a few tricks and the confidence to attack it. Jump turning is not really what you want to do, sometimes it's what you have to do when the ski isn't stiff enough to track through the crust. _ Basically, you need to keep your weight centered and both skis turning. Resort skiers have a terrible time with this because they've never learned two footed skiing and stiff alpine boots are a crutch for keeping your weight centered. If you can ski crud well then you should be able to manage breakable crust, which you can think of as REALLY BAD CRUD. _ Two footed skiing with soft boots will teach you the ankle flex required. You need to be able to pressure the fronts of your boots without taking weight off the heel, (i.e. you want to pressure the front cuff and still drive weight through the heel.) In particular you want to do this on the inside ski. ___________________________________________ |
#7
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article , Ken Roberts wrote: Booker C. Bense wrote . . . both skis turning . . . two footed skiing Two-ski skiing is well worth learning -- notably for enjoying deep powder. And it's what I used to try to do to handle some breakable crust. But then an excellent German skier told me that he had found that one-ski turning was better for non-supportive crust and variable-consistency crud. (for which the European Alps offer frequent practice opportunities.) The basic problem with putting weight on both skis in variable-speed / variable-depth snow is that one ski does one thing at the same time the other ski does something rather different -- and it's real tricky to manage that. _ I find the other way a lot more difficult to manage, unless you are holding the unweighted ski entirely above the snow. An unweighted ski goes where the snow wants, not neccessarily where you want. What you precieve as a problem I precieve as an advantage. If both skis are slightly weighted, then it's easier to transfer weight when one loses grip for some reason. I've tried one footed and it works until it doesn't and then you fall. I don't think there is a one size fits all answer. _ Of course the best way to handle breakable crust is to traverse to the shady side of the mountain where it's still powder... %-). _ Booker C. Bense -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBQYqfRGTWTAjn5N/lAQHUnQP+P9AXEG0+Se6Zfii3L0kc0XuqO2qtOCiO 3oSs6kIiFJKOQsc6Qr9MoOFri1lro/gb1VfL+ix2ZXcQRzqj9YHuMTDWqfawqnwQ sNkcL5GsPnEXHi4xl4nYoyjNANwhwugvImnTtvsHtlFPkWZonF QajJgkWYl19KBM 6CmgOoNEoLE= =jih/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#8
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"Ken Roberts" wrote in
: snip some very good comments.... (Stiff boots do not solve the problem of re-centering after your chest and shoulders got flung down and forward.) I just wanted to come back on this. The OP was using light randonnée boots, which are very soft. They're not great if you get thrown forward, but they're much worse if your weight gets too far back - the back of the boot offers very little support, which makes recovery a lot harder. Excellent practice though - the same principle as skiing with your boots undone if you're using normal downhill equipment. Ken Jeremy |
#9
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Booker C. Bense schrieb:
_ Of course the best way to handle breakable crust is to traverse to the shady side of the mountain where it's still powder... %-). Booker, that might be a good idea for *your* kind of mountains. Here, in the alps, crust mainly is not the result of sun and shadow, but the result of abrupt changes of temperatures. I don't know the Usa, but i think our conditions are more compareable to your east coast snow types (save, in the higher zones of the alps - and the north faces - there will be pretty stable powder - but not that famous champaign powder like in Canada for example). Greetings, Uli |
#10
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Jeremy Mortimer schrieb:
I just wanted to come back on this. The OP was using light randonnée boots, which are very soft. They're not great if you get thrown forward, but they're much worse if your weight gets too far back - the back of the boot offers very little support, which makes recovery a lot harder. Excellent practice though - the same principle as skiing with your boots undone if you're using normal downhill equipment. I agree completely. That's the reason why we (in Europe) tend to give soft boots to childs and beginners. To make them feel the forward/backward (and not only right/left and up/down) balance (the scandivians, often, put alpine beginners for some day on cross country skis. There is a nice word of Bernard Russi (ex-olympic champion downhill) re telemark: It makes you feel the 3rd dimension of balance (compared to fixed heel). Greetings, Uli |
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