JayT's Big Saturday Workout RACE 1-31-04

Today I raced the 35K City of Lakes Skate race in Minneapolis. I
didn't have the fastest skis (I should get a cold weather skate ski).
However, I think my main problem was that I'm still recovering from my
4 hour 15 minute Classic Race at the Noquemanon. Due to the cold temps
this week, I only skied 4 days whcih probably worked out for the best.
I think I'll do another week of skiing 4 days since I'd like to get
the energy back. Anyway, I placed 129th out of 650 with a time of
2:03. The guys I normally ski with came in 5 minutes faster. Any
thoughts on recovering faster?

Jay Tegeder
"Keep training (but take time to rest), lycra never lies!" JT

On 31 Jan 2004 17:13:50 -0800, (Jay Tegeder)
wrote:

Any
thoughts on recovering faster?

Exercise very little -- the bare minimum to turn your metabolism on --
like whatever you normally do as a warmup should be the whole workout.
Perhaps take time off completely in the middle of the week with an
actication workout (some easy pickups) the day before your next race.

JT

AFter those big races like the Noque/Vasa/White pine I always did VERY
little during the week. Sunday off, Monday off, easy ski Tuesday, longer
easy ski with pickups Wed., off Thurs AND Friday. It seems like a lot of
rest, but for me the body needed it and it worked.

Big hours early/mid season then rest through the racing phase Jay.

Also, a few Amber Ale's and big batch of nachos helps too.
JK

"John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
On 31 Jan 2004 17:13:50 -0800, (Jay Tegeder)
wrote:

Any
thoughts on recovering faster?

Exercise very little -- the bare minimum to turn your metabolism on --
like whatever you normally do as a warmup should be the whole workout.
Perhaps take time off completely in the middle of the week with an
actication workout (some easy pickups) the day before your next race.

JT

The more I think about it, I'm blaming my skis for my slow City of
Lakes Loppet. I know that's a convienient (sp) excuse. The thing is, I
felt pretty strong the whole race. I even had something left at the
end for a sprint finish. My skis just weren't running. I used my
Peltonen Universal skis with a Uni Grind. I don't have a cold weather
ski to race on. I used LF4 like some other guys who had faster skis
than me. They were on cold base skis though with little or no
structure. I sold two pairs of racing skis this winter. One was
another Universal and the other was a wet snow base. I think I'll have
to invest in a cold base ski. I passed Jim Farrell right before we got
on to Wirth Lake, about 8Ks into the course. He passed me back on the
lake and glided much better than me. I caught back up to him in the
hills but he pulled away on the descents. Others were passing me too
on the downhills. I gapped up to Farrell again on Brownie Lake and
stayed with him on that lake, Cedar Lake, Lake of the Isles and then
Calhoun where I went around him and put some distance between us going
on to Lake of the Isles for the second time. I talked to him after the
race. He said he started to get tired when I finally passed him. He's
skiing good though and has great V-2 and V-1 technique. With the lack
of glide, I was forced to use a lot of V-1, even on the lakes. To sum
it up, I need cold base skis. I guess I could have just stated that
right away and save you the rest of the story. I've been listening to
Paul Harvey too much lately though.

Jay Tegeder
"Stick around this sport long enough and you'll beat everyone at least
once!" JT

(Jay Tegeder) wrote in message . com...
Today I raced the 35K City of Lakes Skate race in Minneapolis. I
didn't have the fastest skis (I should get a cold weather skate ski).
However, I think my main problem was that I'm still recovering from my
4 hour 15 minute Classic Race at the Noquemanon. Due to the cold temps
this week, I only skied 4 days whcih probably worked out for the best.
I think I'll do another week of skiing 4 days since I'd like to get
the energy back. Anyway, I placed 129th out of 650 with a time of
2:03. The guys I normally ski with came in 5 minutes faster. Any
thoughts on recovering faster?

Jay Tegeder
"Keep training (but take time to rest), lycra never lies!" JT

Jay,

I had sort of the same experience with the classic race. I was actually
pretty pleased with my time and performance, but it really bothered me
to have skied away from several guys in the hills, only to have them
come back to (and thru) me on the lakes.
I was using very well brushed FastWax White on a fairly fine (Uni
minus, I think), but I probably could've taken 6 more inches out of my
kick zone and done just fine. Only a couple of spots I needed to
herringbone at all.

Today is a real down-energy day. No real sore spots, strains or agonies
other than my 4th toes(new pilot boots, I think), but absolutely no
energy. Lots of liquid, plenty of protein and vegetables, and a little
shovelling.

I'm really glad that Mora is on the 'real' course this year. After
racing 20K on the lakes today, I don't think I could face 3 laps of
Knife Lake at Mora next week too.

Marsh Jones


Jay Tegeder wrote:
The more I think about it, I'm blaming my skis for my slow City of
Lakes Loppet. I know that's a convienient (sp) excuse. The thing is, I
felt pretty strong the whole race. I even had something left at the
end for a sprint finish. My skis just weren't running. I used my
Peltonen Universal skis with a Uni Grind. I don't have a cold weather
ski to race on. I used LF4 like some other guys who had faster skis
than me. They were on cold base skis though with little or no
structure. I sold two pairs of racing skis this winter. One was
another Universal and the other was a wet snow base. I think I'll have
to invest in a cold base ski. I passed Jim Farrell right before we got
on to Wirth Lake, about 8Ks into the course. He passed me back on the
lake and glided much better than me. I caught back up to him in the
hills but he pulled away on the descents. Others were passing me too
on the downhills. I gapped up to Farrell again on Brownie Lake and
stayed with him on that lake, Cedar Lake, Lake of the Isles and then
Calhoun where I went around him and put some distance between us going
on to Lake of the Isles for the second time. I talked to him after the
race. He said he started to get tired when I finally passed him. He's
skiing good though and has great V-2 and V-1 technique. With the lack
of glide, I was forced to use a lot of V-1, even on the lakes. To sum
it up, I need cold base skis. I guess I could have just stated that
right away and save you the rest of the story. I've been listening to
Paul Harvey too much lately though.

Jay Tegeder
"Stick around this sport long enough and you'll beat everyone at least
once!" JT

Marsh,

I did the classic also and although I felt pretty good during the race
and had a good placing (12th in age) for me I was toast later that day
and very sore most of yesterday. I wonder if it is due to the 3 hours
in very cold conditions that starts to beat you down....or it could be
just being 53 years old I also have a nasty little strip of frosbite
on my face...a battle scar if you will.

My race was the opposite, I lost time in the uphills (especially in
the Flower Gardens) but I tracked down and passed about 10-15 guys
during the last 20K. I've been playing around with Solda wax this year
and my skis were greasy fast on the flats. Given the very cold temps
this was a big surprise. I spent quite a bit of time this week getting
very cold wax into the ski and lots of intense brushing. In all I
probably ended up with 6 layers of cold wax. I raced on Solda F15 blue
(a low Fluor) covered with Hydrocarbon HC-28 which, I believe is some
kind of antistatic covered with two final layers of S-30....which is
their version of very cold powder. Rode special green for kick and I
did shorten my wax pocket about three inches, I had fine grip the
whole way.

John O'Connell


Marsh Jones wrote in message news:ZWfTb.205089$xy6.1054619@attbi_s02...
Jay,

I had sort of the same experience with the classic race. I was actually
pretty pleased with my time and performance, but it really bothered me
to have skied away from several guys in the hills, only to have them
come back to (and thru) me on the lakes.
I was using very well brushed FastWax White on a fairly fine (Uni
minus, I think), but I probably could've taken 6 more inches out of my
kick zone and done just fine. Only a couple of spots I needed to
herringbone at all.

Today is a real down-energy day. No real sore spots, strains or agonies
other than my 4th toes(new pilot boots, I think), but absolutely no
energy. Lots of liquid, plenty of protein and vegetables, and a little
shovelling.

I'm really glad that Mora is on the 'real' course this year. After
racing 20K on the lakes today, I don't think I could face 3 laps of
Knife Lake at Mora next week too.

Marsh Jones


Jay Tegeder wrote:
The more I think about it, I'm blaming my skis for my slow City of
Lakes Loppet. I know that's a convienient (sp) excuse. The thing is, I
felt pretty strong the whole race. I even had something left at the
end for a sprint finish. My skis just weren't running. I used my
Peltonen Universal skis with a Uni Grind. I don't have a cold weather
ski to race on. I used LF4 like some other guys who had faster skis
than me. They were on cold base skis though with little or no
structure. I sold two pairs of racing skis this winter. One was
another Universal and the other was a wet snow base. I think I'll have
to invest in a cold base ski. I passed Jim Farrell right before we got
on to Wirth Lake, about 8Ks into the course. He passed me back on the
lake and glided much better than me. I caught back up to him in the
hills but he pulled away on the descents. Others were passing me too
on the downhills. I gapped up to Farrell again on Brownie Lake and
stayed with him on that lake, Cedar Lake, Lake of the Isles and then
Calhoun where I went around him and put some distance between us going
on to Lake of the Isles for the second time. I talked to him after the
race. He said he started to get tired when I finally passed him. He's
skiing good though and has great V-2 and V-1 technique. With the lack
of glide, I was forced to use a lot of V-1, even on the lakes. To sum
it up, I need cold base skis. I guess I could have just stated that
right away and save you the rest of the story. I've been listening to
Paul Harvey too much lately though.

Jay Tegeder
"Stick around this sport long enough and you'll beat everyone at least
once!" JT

Probably shortening your kick wax zone was as important as the cold wax
prep. In the hills, however, did you have to work harder for good grip,
with lots of herringbone? Were the hills tracked? I still haven't been
on the course. I was also toasted from being outside so many hours that
day, and my legs didn't feel like going anywhere Sunday. I think just
being out in zero F temps that long does it, plus you were out on the
lakes for quite awhile. It was fortunate that there was little wind.
There were lots of frostbite cases (after a couple of hours, I had to
jump in a bus when the end of my nose turned white). Good race,

Gene

John O'Connell wrote:

Marsh,

I did the classic also and although I felt pretty good during the race
and had a good placing (12th in age) for me I was toast later that day
and very sore most of yesterday. I wonder if it is due to the 3 hours
in very cold conditions that starts to beat you down....or it could be
just being 53 years old I also have a nasty little strip of frosbite
on my face...a battle scar if you will.

My race was the opposite, I lost time in the uphills (especially in
the Flower Gardens) but I tracked down and passed about 10-15 guys
during the last 20K. I've been playing around with Solda wax this year
and my skis were greasy fast on the flats. Given the very cold temps
this was a big surprise. I spent quite a bit of time this week getting
very cold wax into the ski and lots of intense brushing. In all I
probably ended up with 6 layers of cold wax. I raced on Solda F15 blue
(a low Fluor) covered with Hydrocarbon HC-28 which, I believe is some
kind of antistatic covered with two final layers of S-30....which is
their version of very cold powder. Rode special green for kick and I
did shorten my wax pocket about three inches, I had fine grip the
whole way.

John O'Connell

Unlike John O, I had the slowest skis I've ever raced on - esp. compared
to the folks I started with. I think I've got enough "distance" from this
painful event to at least post some questions.
These are the skis I used in last year's Korte, and did very well (2nd
in my age group). I've waxed them a few times since then, but not skied
on them very much. They had a layer of soft wax on them over the summer.
Last week I cleaned them with fast wax purple, then put a layer of FW
Blue, and then two layers of FW white.
I brushed them, first with copper and then blue nylon, a great deal -
even took them outside in the -20 evening temps for a while, then brought
them inside for more brushing. At the start of the race, John Dyste
brushed them again after most of my warm-up skiing with the Homenkollen
Steel Micro Finish Brush.
After skiing up the first hill, and along the flat, the wave I started
with (and was skiing towards the back of it) all went down a long hill -
and the whole wave skied away from me. By the time I got to the bottom,
they were all around the next turn. From there on it only got worse.
I showed the skis to John, who said they probabaly had too much
structure in them. I took them in to Finn Sisu this morning, and both Tom
(who looked at them and disagreed with John: they have some structure, but
it's thinning out, and not enough to have created the problems I had) and
Greg Weier (who waxed the no. 2 overall skiers skis, among others (and who
I got to agree to help me wax mine in the future) told me that I had
brushed too much - that all that "official" advice about brushing cold wax
until no more comes aout and then brushing some more - is wrong.
So, experts, while I hope never to do a race in those temps for that
long again, how do you prepare a fast ski in cold condtions? How much do
you brush, and with what? (As a side note, while all the wax reps said
that had I used their brand, my skis would have been faster, all agreed
that the brand of wax doesn't make as much difference as all that, and
certainly not enough to have produced that much slowing.)
-Ken

************************************************** *********
Kenneth Salzberg
Hamline University
School of Law (651) 523-2354
1536 Hewitt Ave.
Sisu Skier - 50K Club St. Paul, MN 55104
************************************************** ****************

Hi Ken,

I had a "bad wax" experience many years ago after brushing with a brass
brush. I tend to avoid brushes with metal bristles now and wonder if
that might be an issue. I brushed mine with nylon and horsehair.
I've heard great things about FastWax white, so doubt the wax was an
issue.

Brian

In article . edu,
Kenneth Salzberg wrote:
I brushed them, first with copper and then blue nylon, a great deal -

brushed them again after most of my warm-up skiing with the Homenkollen
Steel Micro Finish Brush.

I brushed them, first with copper and then blue nylon, a great deal
-
even took them outside in the -20 evening temps for a while, then
brought
them inside for more brushing. At the start of the race, John Dyste
brushed them again after most of my warm-up skiing with the
Homenkollen
Steel Micro Finish Brush.

I got to agree to help me wax mine in the future) told me that I had
brushed too much - that all that "official" advice about brushing
cold wax
until no more comes aout and then brushing some more - is wrong.
So, experts, while I hope never to do a race in those temps for
that
long again, how do you prepare a fast ski in cold condtions? How
much do
you brush, and with what? (As a side note, while all the wax reps

I would NOT say to brush with copper and steel (!!) brushes. Those are
more agressive brushes and are going to take the wax out of the base
and disturb any little hairs that might be loose on the base. Lots of
waxing and brushing with horsehair and nylon brushes is the idea.

Also, the polish of the base before waxing is very important. I really
like the Jenex Omni Prep Pad (not a Toko product, but darn good stuff).
It really shines up the base. If you think the skis are good and you
want them to be fast in future cold weather do this:

Get Zach to grind with an LJ02 or similar cold grind.
Wax a lot with cold weather waxes.
Use copper brush and omni prep between waxings.
After final race wax brush a lot with horsehair and nylon. Buff with
some old pantyhose.
Have fast skis.

Rob Bradlee
Toko Tech Team


=====
Rob Bradlee
Java, C++, Perl, XML, OOAD, Linux, and Unix Training