Lapland Lake Benson, NY

Hi All,

Curious about conditions at Lapland Lake Ski Area. They advertise
great conditions for both classical and skate. Hopefully, someone has
been there recently and is willing to share their experience. Thanks.

On 19 Feb 2007 12:41:04 -0800, "frozen granular"
wrote:
Curious about conditions at Lapland Lake Ski Area. They advertise
great conditions for both classical and skate. Hopefully, someone has
been there recently and is willing to share their experience. Thanks.

I haven't been there recently, but the two times I went what was
described on their website was *much* more optimistic than what the
actual situation is. I've got no problem with places not having great
snow, but have a big problem with them lying about it.

Yesterday I was talking with a guy who likes the place a lot and he
told me that they still exaggerate the quality of conditions, though
not as extremely as in the past.

LL is a little far for me, so if I was driving far I'd go to Garnet
Hill, or Prospect Mountain, or perhaps somewhere in the Tug Hill
region first.

If LL was close to me I'd check it out from time to time, but as it is
I'll probably never be back to LL.

That said, look at this:
http://www.erh.noaa.gov/nerfc/graphi...now_depth.html

One other thing. I've never been to Garnet Hill and not seen them
grooming. They really work the snow and are very honest about what
they have. Great place. Great place.



--
JT
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"John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
On 19 Feb 2007 12:41:04 -0800, "frozen granular"
wrote:
Curious about conditions at Lapland Lake Ski Area. They advertise
great conditions for both classical and skate. Hopefully, someone has
been there recently and is willing to share their experience. Thanks.

I haven't been there recently, but the two times I went what was
described on their website was *much* more optimistic than what the
actual situation is. I've got no problem with places not having great
snow, but have a big problem with them lying about it.

Yesterday I was talking with a guy who likes the place a lot and he
told me that they still exaggerate the quality of conditions, though
not as extremely as in the past.

LL is a little far for me, so if I was driving far I'd go to Garnet
Hill, or Prospect Mountain, or perhaps somewhere in the Tug Hill
region first.

If LL was close to me I'd check it out from time to time, but as it is
I'll probably never be back to LL.

That said, look at this:
http://www.erh.noaa.gov/nerfc/graphi...now_depth.html

One other thing. I've never been to Garnet Hill and not seen them
grooming. They really work the snow and are very honest about what
they have. Great place. Great place.

I'm personally not a fan of Lapland Lake since it has more of a downhill ski
resort feel than a the backwoods cross country touring center feel that I
prefer. However, since that region got 3 feet of snow on 2/14, I would
imagine that conditions are outstanding.

Personally, I prefer Garnet Hill.

I like Lapland Lake. I don't know what you mean by the "apline resort"
feeling. It's a nice getaway; their tradition of making a campfire by
the lake is very special. I like their winding (a bit narrow) trails.
Great (warm) wax room, plenty of space to change, food on site. I've
been to many XC places which do feel like "apline" resorts (most of CA
places). Granted, the last time I was there was ~2 years ago. Things
may have changed.

If you do a newsgroup search on Lapland Lake going back some years,
you'll find your feelings are in the distinct minority. Granted the
facilities are there, and I don't know what alpine resort means either,
but it's the human quality that's been in short supply. They've made a
lot of enemies over the years among skiers, been unable to keep
knowledgeable and talented ski staff, or sell the place (with them
remaining on the premises).


" wrote:

I like Lapland Lake. I don't know what you mean by the "apline resort"
feeling. It's a nice getaway; their tradition of making a campfire by
the lake is very special. I like their winding (a bit narrow) trails.
Great (warm) wax room, plenty of space to change, food on site. I've
been to many XC places which do feel like "apline" resorts (most of CA
places). Granted, the last time I was there was ~2 years ago. Things
may have changed.

On Feb 19, 3:41 pm, "frozen granular"
wrote:
Hi All,

Curious about conditions at Lapland Lake Ski Area. They advertise
great conditions for both classical and skate. Hopefully, someone has
been there recently and is willing to share their experience. Thanks.


This may help... I was there yesterday at which time they advertised,
" Finntastic, The best ever conditions ". There were many skiers. To
be honest, the grooming was atrocious, considering three days had
elapsed after the ~three foot snowstorm. The snow was beautiful powder
but had been very poorly packed, as there were numerous deep ruts
adjacent to the set track. The three hills were especially difficult
due to the same problem. I saw very few skaters, however the ones that
were there were having a very onerous time due to the softness.

I have been skiing LL for several years, having witnessed excellent
track set, during the 80's and 90's, however over the last few years
this has not been the case. Although they spin, superb grooming the
actual grooming is pathetic. The owner/groomer is extremely frugal
with his machine, not really concerned about real skiers, but more
concerned about suckering people for their money. I believe the
deceptive owners are catering to other than real skiers. Some other
examples of their deception include: Minimizing adverse weather
conditions i.e. wind, temp and especially actual track conditions.
What you read on their site frequently is not what you get.

They have drawn attention to the Lake Trail, highlighting that it has
been widened along with larger culvert pipes installed as well as
classical tracks set wider apart making for a better experience to
both classical and skaters alike. My take on this, considering the
survey flags on the south side of the trail, is that the Lake Trail
will become an access road for residential development. Probably after
the first house, goodbye Lake Trail.

So rather than bore you with more examples, you might follow the sage
advise of a previous poster- consider HONEST Garnet Hill, Prospect
Mountain or Tug Hill.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I like Lapland Lake. I don't know what you mean by the "apline resort"
feeling. It's a nice getaway; their tradition of making a campfire by
the lake is very special. I like their winding (a bit narrow) trails.
Great (warm) wax room, plenty of space to change, food on site. I've
been to many XC places which do feel like "apline" resorts (most of CA
places). Granted, the last time I was there was ~2 years ago. Things
may have changed.


Actually, I haven't been there for about five years. What I mean by an
alpine resort feel (and some of this may have changed) is that the ski shop
and snack bar are crowded, there are lots of people showing off the latest
outfits, the people who work there are too stressed by the crowds to give
anyone much of their time (although a former neighbor of mine was an
instructor there and loved it), and, frankly, the trails are full of skaters
who treat us old fashioned classic skiers as if we're in the way, even if we
stick to the tracks.

In retrospect, I also find the trails to be not very challenging (and
crowded). There are few hills and while there are a lot of km's of trails,
it's really not a big area. The trails loop around close to each other such
that you often are within sight of other trails.

This week, we spent a few days in Vermont at two very different touring
centers: Blueberry Hill near Barton (northeast of Rutland), which is very
wooded and backcountry, and the Trapp Family Lodge, which is quite the
resort. Although they are very different from each other, each offered
extremely challenging hilly trails. Blueberry Hill did have many people
there in a weekday and we encountered only a few people on the trail. The
Trapp Family Lodge was quite busy, but there were few enough people on the
far trails that it felt comfortably remote. Both locations challenged us
and got their share of whoops on the downhill segments. I've never whooped
at Lapland Lake.

"Bill in Schenectady" wrote in message
news:RMnDh.7891$am1.7288@trndny01...

wrote in message
oups.com...
I like Lapland Lake. I don't know what you mean by the "apline resort"
feeling. It's a nice getaway; their tradition of making a campfire by
the lake is very special. I like their winding (a bit narrow) trails.
Great (warm) wax room, plenty of space to change, food on site. I've
been to many XC places which do feel like "apline" resorts (most of CA
places). Granted, the last time I was there was ~2 years ago. Things
may have changed.


Actually, I haven't been there for about five years. What I mean by an
alpine resort feel (and some of this may have changed) is that the ski
shop and snack bar are crowded, there are lots of people showing off the
latest outfits, the people who work there are too stressed by the crowds
to give anyone much of their time (although a former neighbor of mine was
an instructor there and loved it), and, frankly, the trails are full of
skaters who treat us old fashioned classic skiers as if we're in the way,
even if we stick to the tracks.

In retrospect, I also find the trails to be not very challenging (and
crowded). There are few hills and while there are a lot of km's of
trails, it's really not a big area. The trails loop around close to each
other such that you often are within sight of other trails.

This week, we spent a few days in Vermont at two very different touring
centers: Blueberry Hill near Barton (northeast of Rutland), which is very
wooded and backcountry, and the Trapp Family Lodge, which is quite the
resort. Although they are very different from each other, each offered
extremely challenging hilly trails. Blueberry Hill did have many people
there in a weekday and we encountered only a few people on the trail. The
Trapp Family Lodge was quite busy, but there were few enough people on the
far trails that it felt comfortably remote. Both locations challenged us
and got their share of whoops on the downhill segments. I've never
whooped at Lapland Lake.
Correction: meant to say that Blueberry Hill had few people there on a
weekday.

Full report will be posted elsewhere.

I skied Lapland Lake on a Sunday this month (i.e. with 8-10" on the
ground, before the Valentine's Day storm) -- I had phoned there a few
times in Jan. when they were advertising as open with marginal
conditions, and they were very direct & honest with me on the phone
about the state of the trails, so I didn't head up. When I got there
the grooming was great for skating (they said on the website that it
hadn't been tracked for classic, and it wasn't) -- not perfectly
smooth corduroy but well packed -- my only complaint was that some of
the uphills were a bit narrow and tips got caught up in unpacked snow
on steep V1. Overall I had a blast -- while there were a lot of
people in the lodge, I hardly saw any skiers on the trails, & with
nearly all the trails one-way, the few I met didn't make it feel
crowded in any way. The thing I loved about these trails was the
*flow* -- I did about 2 1/2 laps around the blue/black loops to the W
of the lodge & I'd say 75% of it can be done comfortably with V2, with
lots of fast corners & short hills where you can keep your momentum
then power over the top with a few strokes of V1 (even in 8-10F
slowish snow conditions that day--trails are also nicely sheltered
from wind). After skiing in the Sierras the past two years, the
trails definitely felt narrow, & there aren't any big climbs, but
there are really fun twisty sections comparable to Quickdraw at TD or
parts of the 2nd half of the Great Ski Race course (think of the bumps
on the snowmobile trail). The fluid feel reminded me a lot of good
single-track mountain biking -- I can see that if they had set track &
you were skiing classical, the trails could feel crowded on a busy
day, but on a day when the grooming is on, it's a really fun place to
skate.

Anyway the alternatives I've found for groomed skiing within 75 min of
Schenectady are both classic only: Tree Haven Trails (very flat, but a
great place to double-pole for a few hours) and Oak Hill (haven't been
there yet). Hoping to get to Crandall Park and Pineridge this week.

Derick (also in Schenectady)

It's a little longer trip, but being a CA skier you'd appreciate Garnet
Hill. Longer climbs, big lake skiing, some technical side trails.
Also, if the snow conditions are there, I'm told Tug Hill has nice
classical trails.


"Derick Fay" wrote:

Anyway the alternatives I've found for groomed skiing within 75 min of
Schenectady are both classic only: Tree Haven Trails (very flat, but a
great place to double-pole for a few hours) and Oak Hill (haven't been
there yet). Hoping to get to Crandall Park and Pineridge this week.

Derick (also in Schenectady)