Question on coming down a hill

"JCZ" wrote in message
...
Finally I'm bored with the easy trails. Saturday I tried the medium
trails, and I did just fine -- lots of nice rolling up and down hills.
I had no problems whatsoever, but then I saw a rather steep hill
leading up to the difficult trail. I was tempted to try it, but had I
come DOWN that hill, it would've been scary because it ended at what
looked like a kind of big intersection of trails with benches and maps
and lots of people. Say I was on this trail, and I'm coming
down.....(classic). How do I stop when I need to? Up to this point,
I've tried "snowplowing" which doesn't work when in tracks, I've tried
putting my poles kind of forward to try and get some resistance, and
I've tried turning my boots outward to kind of dig into the tracks to
slow down, but none of them really work that well, and I imagine they
don't work at all well when going kind of fast. Can anyone give me a
suggestion? Thanks.


Welcome to the club of those who can not go down hills easily.

On the trails that I ski at, we have something called an "S" turn. Never
trackset, and yes, I have met the trees. The other hills on the trails all
are trackset, which makes most easy now...

When I was a kid, i would sit down on my skis... not far to go if I fell.

Micheal

wrote in message
oups.com...
Offhand it sounds like you were looking up a hill that was not meant to
be descended. Ski trails do frequently have a proper direction, where
if you go the right way the downhills have reasonable run-outs, but if
you go the wrong way you could end up at a benc-intersection coming up
too soon.

Our local club runs a weekend in which you do the trails in revers... they
groom just before this to take out the marks. some of the hills that you go
down instead of up are a lot easyer.



If people have been descending a hill and MISSING the bench there are
usually ski marks (or official tracks) that show you how the turn can
be successfully made.

Sometimes it is so badly roughed up that you cant see it, even watching
others, you can not make it.

Some skiers are better than others

Micheal

Finally I'm bored with the easy trails. Saturday I tried the medium
trails, and I did just fine -- lots of nice rolling up and down hills.
I had no problems whatsoever, but then I saw a rather steep hill
leading up to the difficult trail. I was tempted to try it, but had I
come DOWN that hill, it would've been scary because it ended at what
looked like a kind of big intersection of trails with benches and maps
and lots of people. Say I was on this trail, and I'm coming
down.....(classic). How do I stop when I need to? Up to this point,
I've tried "snowplowing" which doesn't work when in tracks, I've tried
putting my poles kind of forward to try and get some resistance, and
I've tried turning my boots outward to kind of dig into the tracks to
slow down, but none of them really work that well, and I imagine they
don't work at all well when going kind of fast. Can anyone give me a
suggestion? Thanks.

June

June,

You need to work on getting over the downhill fear that plagues many
cross country skiers, even folks in the upper waves of the Birkie.
Head to a downhill area and work on going downhill on the bunny hills.
There are a couple of keys, one biggest one is to relax, another is to
develop you balance skills. I've found that Garfield's 'Steady Ski'
the best way to do this for me. The last is to practice, gain
confidence and keep getting up off the snow.
Good luck and have fun,

chris

Offhand it sounds like you were looking up a hill that was not meant to
be descended. Ski trails do frequently have a proper direction, where
if you go the right way the downhills have reasonable run-outs, but if
you go the wrong way you could end up at a benc-intersection coming up
too soon. Even informal local trails tend to get a
directionality---right way, wrong way. Even trails that aren't
officially trackset. Local skiers will tend to go the way that the
geography works out the best. And their ski marks will make doing the
various turns fairly reasonable. I find that going backwards on even a
mellow twisting trail that has been informally skied-in can be
hard---the skate-turn marks all point the wrong way and readily mess up
a smooth turn. So it's best to go the way everyone else has been going.
If people have been descending a hill and MISSING the bench there are
usually ski marks (or official tracks) that show you how the turn can
be successfully made.

Snowplowing doesn't work in tracks, but one foot can be lifted out of
the track and angled more or less, depending on snow-type. Or you can
take both skis out of the tracks. The middle of a hard turn will often
be blown-out even if trackset so you can do a full skid-turn there to
scrub speed.

I sometimes drag my pole baskets BEHIND me to do some slowing. If your
poles aren't too fragile you can lean back down on them and use them as
modest brakes to lose 5-10% speed. If you have any kind of rushing
speed going, then putting them forward and doing the 'stab hamper'
seems a bad idea.

If I hit a downhill that has no decent run-out and seems ready to
accelerate me into trouble, I always hit the deck with a side-butt drop
before I get too much speed. This happens most often when I'm skiing a
hiking trail that no one else has skied in a long time and maybe there
are logs across the path at the bottom, lovely things like that, or if
I'm going the wrong way on an expert loop!

June,
When you snowplow do 2 things:

1. Knees and thighs touch (this angles both skis to carve)
2. Thumbs forward and low, and butt high.

To make a sharp turn when snowplowing on ice, keep lifting one ski a
little in a tapping motion. If you are in the above body position,
tapping/lifting the left ski will turn you left. Tapping/lifting (when
thumbs down/butt high/knees touching) will turn you right.

Your body position is everything when turning cross country skis.
You have no metal edges on the skis and sneakers for ski boots.

Since you are in Michigan, the best X-C instruction is at Boyne
Mountain. Take a 2 hour "beginer" private lesson for $47. By going
private your 2 hours won't be wasted on watching your instructor attend
incredibly uncoordinated newbies.
Then go back and take a 1 hour private lesson from Lou for $55, and
tell Lou you want to learn you to make turns on ice. In one hour you
will, and it will be the best $55 you can spend on cross country skiing.
Cheers,
Bruce Freeburger
usenet(at)BIKESonTV.com


JCZ wrote:

Finally I'm bored with the easy trails. Saturday I tried the medium
trails, and I did just fine -- lots of nice rolling up and down hills.
I had no problems whatsoever, but then I saw a rather steep hill
leading up to the difficult trail. I was tempted to try it, but had I
come DOWN that hill, it would've been scary because it ended at what
looked like a kind of big intersection of trails with benches and maps
and lots of people. Say I was on this trail, and I'm coming
down.....(classic). How do I stop when I need to? Up to this point,
I've tried "snowplowing" which doesn't work when in tracks, I've tried
putting my poles kind of forward to try and get some resistance, and
I've tried turning my boots outward to kind of dig into the tracks to
slow down, but none of them really work that well, and I imagine they
don't work at all well when going kind of fast. Can anyone give me a
suggestion? Thanks.

June

Say I was on this trail, and I'm coming
down.....(classic). How do I stop when I need to? Up to this point,
I've tried "snowplowing" which doesn't work when in tracks, I've tried
putting my poles kind of forward to try and get some resistance

Try stepping out of the track then snowplowing -- either get out at the
top of the hill, or partway down. Practice getting in and out of
tracks on a less steep hill -- step out, snowplow until you're back at
a comfortable speed, then step back in. You can also do a half
snowplow where one foot stays in the tracks and the other is angled.

Putting your poles in front of you can be dangerous -- in a fall you
can end up with a pole in your ribs or gut.

An advanced option is to learn to do a hockey stop (i.e. stopping like
a hockey player on skates, with first the upper body then both skis
turning perpindicular to direction of travel; much easier said than
done...).

Derick

Say I was on this trail, and I'm coming
down.....(classic). How do I stop when I need to? Up to this point,
I've tried "snowplowing" which doesn't work when in tracks, I've tried
putting my poles kind of forward to try and get some resistance

Try stepping out of the track then snowplowing -- either get out at the
top of the hill, or partway down. Practice getting in and out of
tracks on a less steep hill -- step out, snowplow until you're back at
a comfortable speed, then step back in. You can also do a half
snowplow where one foot stays in the tracks and the other is angled.

Putting your poles in front of you can be dangerous -- in a fall you
can end up with a pole in your ribs or gut.

An advanced option is to learn to do a hockey stop (i.e. stopping like
a hockey player on skates, with first the upper body then both skis
turning perpindicular to direction of travel; much easier said than
done...).

Derick

Thanks Chris. I understand that fear, but really I'm not that scared
to go downhill, but wouldn't it be kind of crazy of me to go down a
hill like this and not know how to stop? So I guess the real question
I'm asking is how do you stop, because I might have to.

June

"BeeCharmer" wrote in message
oups.com...
June,

You need to work on getting over the downhill fear that plagues many
cross country skiers, even folks in the upper waves of the Birkie.
Head to a downhill area and work on going downhill on the bunny
hills.
There are a couple of keys, one biggest one is to relax, another is
to
develop you balance skills. I've found that Garfield's 'Steady Ski'
the best way to do this for me. The last is to practice, gain
confidence and keep getting up off the snow.
Good luck and have fun,

chris

Uh uh...... This trail has two sets of tracks -- one set going in each
direction, and a guy came down that hill just after I walked UP it to
see what was on the other side. (I walked not on the trail but next to
it, so as not to wreck it.) I didn't think to watch him to see what he
did at the bottom where all the trails converge and there were a bunch
of people. It dawned on me later that it seemed kind of a weird ending
to a steep-ish hill.

Thanks Jeff for the tips on stopping. I like that lift one ski out of
track and angle it or side scrubbing. You're right about the poles
forward thing. I usually just do that when I'm easing down a hill that
I don't want to build up speed on because maybe there's someone in
front of me not going fast enough or something like that. But doing it
when going fast would be kind of dumb. I like the idea of the dragging
baskets, too. Hey! Thanks so much.


June

wrote in message
oups.com...
Offhand it sounds like you were looking up a hill that was not meant
to
be descended. Ski trails do frequently have a proper direction,
where
if you go the right way the downhills have reasonable run-outs, but
if
you go the wrong way you could end up at a benc-intersection coming
up
too soon. Even informal local trails tend to get a
directionality---right way, wrong way. Even trails that aren't
officially trackset. Local skiers will tend to go the way that the
geography works out the best. And their ski marks will make doing
the
various turns fairly reasonable. I find that going backwards on even
a
mellow twisting trail that has been informally skied-in can be
hard---the skate-turn marks all point the wrong way and readily mess
up
a smooth turn. So it's best to go the way everyone else has been
going.
If people have been descending a hill and MISSING the bench there
are
usually ski marks (or official tracks) that show you how the turn
can
be successfully made.

Snowplowing doesn't work in tracks, but one foot can be lifted out
of
the track and angled more or less, depending on snow-type. Or you
can
take both skis out of the tracks. The middle of a hard turn will
often
be blown-out even if trackset so you can do a full skid-turn there
to
scrub speed.

I sometimes drag my pole baskets BEHIND me to do some slowing. If
your
poles aren't too fragile you can lean back down on them and use them
as
modest brakes to lose 5-10% speed. If you have any kind of rushing
speed going, then putting them forward and doing the 'stab hamper'
seems a bad idea.

If I hit a downhill that has no decent run-out and seems ready to
accelerate me into trouble, I always hit the deck with a side-butt
drop
before I get too much speed. This happens most often when I'm skiing
a
hiking trail that no one else has skied in a long time and maybe
there
are logs across the path at the bottom, lovely things like that, or
if
I'm going the wrong way on an expert loop!