Elbow pain from poling

Hi,

I think I asked this question before, but the issue came back, so I
thought I’d check again for ideas…

I have his problem with elbow pain which only seems to be related to
poling. I never get it from, say, push-ups or roller board exercises.
And while the latest re-occurrences have been related to roller skiing
(skate), the first time I felt it was on snow going uphill a few years
back. I think I’m being careful not to slam the poles into the
pavement, and yet these days the pain re-occurs almost every weekend
(for roller skiing, I’m a weekend warrior), and terrain doesn’t seem
to matter – around here, it’s pretty flat. I feel this on the inside
of the joint in both elbows.

As much as I enjoy the sport, I wouldn’t go for anything radical like
surgery at this point. I’d appreciate ideas on good warm-ups (I don’t
do anything special for elbows, just try to start gently) or maybe
some topical stuff that hopefully doesn’t just relieve the symptoms
but addresses the problem itself.

Thanks!

On Sep 28, 11:51*am, Larry wrote:
Hi,

I think *I asked this question before, but the issue came back, so I
thought I’d check again for ideas…

I have his problem with elbow pain which only seems to be related to
poling. I never get it from, say, push-ups or roller board exercises.
And while the latest re-occurrences have been related to roller skiing
(skate), the first time I felt it was on snow going uphill a few years
back. I think I’m being careful not to slam the poles into the
pavement, and yet these days the pain re-occurs almost every weekend
(for roller skiing, I’m a weekend warrior), and terrain doesn’t seem
to matter – around here, it’s pretty flat. I feel this on the inside
of the joint in both elbows.

As much as I enjoy the sport, I wouldn’t go for anything radical like
surgery at this point. I’d appreciate ideas on good warm-ups (I don’t
do anything special for elbows, just try to start gently) or maybe
some topical stuff that hopefully doesn’t just relieve the symptoms
but addresses the problem itself.

Thanks!

Hi Larry,
I've same issue - only doublepoling on rollerskis - not on snow. It's
o.k. if I rollerski only 1x or 2x a week.
I was going to try this year special pole tip with suspension; made by
Exel; haven't been able to get hold of it yet.
Cheers,
Mic

On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:51:10 -0700 (PDT), Larry
wrote:

Hi,

I think I asked this question before, but the issue came back, so I
thought I’d check again for ideas…
[snip]

As much as I enjoy the sport, I wouldn’t go for anything radical like
surgery at this point. I’d appreciate ideas on good warm-ups (I don’t
do anything special for elbows, just try to start gently) or maybe
some topical stuff that hopefully doesn’t just relieve the symptoms
but addresses the problem itself.

You should also consider changing the location of your elbows when you
pole to see if that helps - trying them closer to your body, or stuck
out more to the side. The latter is important to me in avoding elbow
pain.

I'm tempted to say it's likely a technique issue, but then I know that
we're each constructed a little differently and even good technique can
sometimes lead to injury or exacerbate an already-existing one,
especially on rollerskis. In my case, poor skate technique, in
particular banging poles on pavement the first time for well over 2 hrs,
injured my rotator cuffs forever.

Nonetheless, it's worth asking three technique questions: 1) at about
what angle are your elbow joints when planting the poles? 2) at what
angle are your elbows pointing relative to straight down? 3) How much
of a role are your arms playing in double poling relative to your
torso?

The best (if not correct), answers should be
1) bent at ~90 degrees, ranging from slightly less to more depending on
the terrain/speed and individual characteristics

2) elbows pointing out 45 degrees or more, with relaxed shoulders (JFT
is correct that straight down will limit pressure on the elbows; the
downside is loss of upper body power that opening the elbows
facilitates)

3) in current DP technique arms play a very limited role, mainly at
the end of the stroke; ~80-85% of poling power should come at the
beginning from abs and shoulders/lats, laterthen moving down through
quads to the ankles and feet (knees over ankles)

Whether or not technique is at issue, I would (and do) head to a good
sports PT right off and, if necessary, an orthopod (preferably a
skier). A cortisone shot can help jump-start rehab. I'd also strongly
suggest that until it's diagnosed and/or therapy is well underway,
to stop poling entirely. It's a good chance to practice no-pole
skating.

Gene


On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:51:10 -0700 (PDT)
Larry wrote:

Hi,

I think I asked this question before, but the issue came back, so I
thought I’d check again for ideas…

I have his problem with elbow pain which only seems to be related to
poling. I never get it from, say, push-ups or roller board exercises.
And while the latest re-occurrences have been related to roller skiing
(skate), the first time I felt it was on snow going uphill a few years
back. I think I’m being careful not to slam the poles into the
pavement, and yet these days the pain re-occurs almost every weekend
(for roller skiing, I’m a weekend warrior), and terrain doesn’t seem
to matter – around here, it’s pretty flat. I feel this on the inside
of the joint in both elbows.

As much as I enjoy the sport, I wouldn’t go for anything radical like
surgery at this point. I’d appreciate ideas on good warm-ups (I don’t
do anything special for elbows, just try to start gently) or maybe
some topical stuff that hopefully doesn’t just relieve the symptoms
but addresses the problem itself.

Thanks!

Sorry to hear of your discomfort.
On my last skiing trip, early this year, I felt on my pole early on, and that elbow was pretty much out of contention for the next couple of days. It sukks, so I feel for you. For me, pushups would not have been an option, the pain was general rather than specific, no big riddle there.

The specific conditions for your pain immediately make me think about pole length and geometry. Many things can be done wrong with poles in terms of geometry, and it seems most things ARE done wrong. Which person has wrists to perfectly align with a straight pole anyway? COmpare to walking sticks, those ancient things are actually made to be ergonomically correct. Much different hand/wrist position.
I am just recovering from painful ankles myself, turns out I got them from flat feet. Insoles and motion control shoes are just getting me back on track, feeling like less of an old man. So, I'm inclined to guess that the way your wrists are now forced, could load your elbows out of whack. Under stain (and what strains more than an elbow poling?), I can see how this would end up hurting.
There are not many options out there to try. Maybe some ergo style grips. There are those carbon add-on pole shafts that totally alter and extend the poles, seemingly popular. Did you ever try borrowing/renting poles in the next length up/down? Once something is wrong in sports fitting, it can be a bit of a riddle to find out.
I wouldn't go under the knife just yet, until you've tried to find a more comfortable condition for that elbow.

Good luck! Do get back to tells us what ended up being the bugger?

J

Thanks guys. I'll try to take it easy for a while, though it's a
bummer to have to slow down right when I was hoping to be speeding up
for the season. Pole length is a curious question. Will have to find a
way to test that.

I forgot about pole length and weight as exacerbating issues. Are we
talking skate or classic here, or both?

Gene

On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:57:23 -0700 (PDT)
Larry wrote:

Thanks guys. I'll try to take it easy for a while, though it's a
bummer to have to slow down right when I was hoping to be speeding up
for the season. Pole length is a curious question. Will have to find a
way to test that.

Originally Posted by Larry

Thanks guys. I'll try to take it easy for a while, though it's a
bummer to have to slow down right when I was hoping to be speeding up
for the season. Pole length is a curious question. Will have to find a
way to test that.

Length is but 1 dimension only. There is grip tilt over 2 other dimensions. If you are a handy man, you might be able to bend a steel rod in some shaped to try and find a sweet spot.
When I held the Force 10 poles, the immediately felt better for me. Grip pointing inwards. It's a one-part molded carbon shape, so they just made it the way that makes sense for them.
Nothing about the human body is 90º or 180º any direction, or moves circular. Sporting goods however DO follow such geometry. Cheaper to make!

On Sep 29, 4:57*pm, Larry wrote:
Thanks guys. I'll try to take it easy for a while, though it's a
bummer to have to slow down right when I was hoping to be speeding up
for the season. Pole length is a curious question. Will have to find a
way to test that.

If you had an important race coming up I would recommend cortizone
shots. For long-term changes - keeping your elbows outside, planting
the poles, rather than hammering, relying on the ab muscles rather
than the triceps (see Gene's response)

On Sep 27, 9:51*pm, Larry wrote:
[ ]
I have his problem with elbow pain which only seems to be related to
poling.[ ] I feel this on the inside
of the joint in both elbows.

Lots of good tips here.

Here's a couple mo

*consider using flexy, absorbent poles
(I got pain once when rollerskiing regularly with carbon poles
-- switched to alum and pain went away)
(and do all those tips about techinque, planting -- and use
SHARP SHARP tips to make planting easy!)

*consider using differently shaped grips
(this looked to be mentioned already, from my glance over the
replies, but consider going even kind of extreme -- install canoe
paddle grips even or find a pair of those old canoe-grips that Swix
(?) made in the 80's)

--JP
outyourbackdoor.com
allskixc.com
bikeboatski.com
diysnowsport.com
xcskireview.com
indieoutdoors.com
upnorthmag.com
(URLs 'R' Us!)