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#51
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looking for better technique isn't worth it
Peter H. wrote
try to stay wild for 2.5 hrs straight. Yes, Ken, and here's a way to do it. Make your next European trip to Norway. Why is it up to me to do this comparison of Poling vs No-poles? Here's a way to do it: You go to the east side of Gatineau Park. Start at the parking lot and skate up to that wide highway with those views: Once with Poling, once with No poles. Let us know how it comes out. Or if somebody wants to fly (or drive) to some long hill in Norway just to do that comparison, that's their business. I'll do mine closer to home at lower cost. (Except I might be able to get talked into a time trial skating up Mill Creek Canyon in mid-January) I'll bet your legs are in far better shape to do 10 more of your shorter test climbs after doing one with the help of poling than after one without poling. That's probably right -- but I did some hard short sprints with V1 poling today, and I felt plenty tired from them. Actually I'm finding myself suddenly less interested in No-poles skating -- now that I'm discovering how much _fun_ skating with Poling can be out on the interesting streets and roads around NY-NJ-PA. Ken |
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#52
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looking for better technique isn't worth it
Ken Roberts wrote: Peter H. wrote try to stay wild for 2.5 hrs straight. Yes, Ken, and here's a way to do it. Make your next European trip to Norway. Why is it up to me to do this comparison of Poling vs No-poles? You're sounding a wee bit touchy, Ken, on Christmas day. Maybe lack of snow is getting to us. The answer, to coin a phrase (ha!), is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence (from those who make the claims), whether they are claims about flying saucers, or claims about how small a percentage the poling contributes in skate skiing. Here's a way to do it: You go to the east side of Gatineau Park. Start at the parking lot and skate up to that wide highway with those views: Once with Poling, once with No poles. Let us know how it comes out. Or if somebody wants to fly (or drive) to some long hill in Norway just to do that comparison, that's their business. In Gatineau, you can get 3 or 4 kms. of more-or-less continuous climb, so that would be pretty good, but not extraordinary. Doing that little bit would be just getting into rhythm in the climb away from Rena. There is no other really well-groomed (skate, hopefully) trail I know of that comes close to that, maybe 90 minute, test, so there's where you get your extraordinary evidence (maybe, but I doubt it). I'll do mine closer to home at lower cost. (Except I might be able to get talked into a time trial skating up Mill Creek Canyon in mid-January) I'll bet your legs are in far better shape to do 10 more of your shorter test climbs after doing one with the help of poling than after one without poling. That's probably right -- but I did some hard short sprints with V1 poling today, and I felt plenty tired from them. Actually I'm finding myself suddenly less interested in No-poles skating -- now that I'm discovering how much _fun_ skating with Poling can be out on the interesting streets and roads around NY-NJ-PA. Ken Yes, it's too bad we're still all stuck on the old rollerskis. But at least, till today, the roads have been okay, not full of slush and freezing rain. Best, Peter |
#53
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looking for better technique isn't worth it
Peter H. wrote
extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence (from those who make the claims) Exactly what is this "extraordinary" claim? Ken |
#54
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looking for better technique isn't worth it
Ken Roberts wrote:
Peter H. wrote extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence (from those who make the claims) Exactly what is this "extraordinary" claim? Ken Here's a couple of versions. I don't think it's out of context, but reading some of your other posts, I must admit that you are not consistently insisting what these seem to say (and actually once you get it up to 20%, my word "extraordinary" is perhaps unfair!): Poling with skating .... compared with No-poles skating.....seems worth only 8%, and that's too high, because it doesn't count that my legs were getting more tired after the previous timed intervals. And my best time with V1 poling is still 4% slower than my best Legs-only time. And later: I've tried two more time trials of skating up hills with poles versus without on asphalt. One of them took more than 20 minutes climbing up 345 vertical meters (1130 ft), average steepness grade 10% -- using poles was only about 15% faster than No poles. Even after more training, I'd be surprised if my speed gain from poling is going to become higher than 20%. And I'd forgotten this 20 minute effort---still far from the 90-110 minutes going from Rena up the little mountain, but where was that 1130 feet? It's more than you'd get in a single cimb, I think, at you suggested Gatineau. Best, Peter |
#55
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looking for better technique isn't worth it
Thanks for taking the time to clarify the claims, Peter.
Actually I'm hoping that I can get to more than 20% faster using Poles help skate up hills. But having been out there trying to achieve that for the last couple of months, feeling how hard it's been just to get to 8% and 15%, has made me less than optimistic. It would be great to see a report on r.s.n from you or somebody else who had worked hard on Leg technique and then was also able to go 35% faster by adding Poling. I bet there are some national team coaches and racers who know what their percentage difference it. But so far it doesn't sound like anybody who posts here has tried measuring. I suspect that if I had tried the comparison four years ago, I would have been like 40%-50% faster by using Poles to help, than skating up a hill with Legs only. Ken |
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