Ski Marathons

Dear All,
I am thinking about doing a ski marathon next winter. I was wondering how
this might compare to training for a running marathon? Would a 45k ski
marathon be the same as a 45k road marathon.

On 01/02/2011 3:05 PM, Neil wrote:
Dear All,
I am thinking about doing a ski marathon next winter. I was wondering
how this might compare to training for a running marathon? Would a 45k
ski marathon be the same as a 45k road marathon.
No much easier to ski 45 than run 45!

totally agree. much easier
less pounding, less TIME, easier all the way.
glide is to your advantage, not much glide in running!

JKal.

"dwall" wrote in message
...
On 01/02/2011 3:05 PM, Neil wrote:
Dear All,
I am thinking about doing a ski marathon next winter. I was wondering
how this might compare to training for a running marathon? Would a 45k
ski marathon be the same as a 45k road marathon.
No much easier to ski 45 than run 45!

On Feb 1, 8:09*pm, "outsideinmi" wrote:
totally agree. *much easier
less pounding, less TIME, easier all the way.
glide is to your advantage, not much glide in running!

JKal.

"dwall" wrote in message

...

On 01/02/2011 3:05 PM, Neil wrote:
Dear All,
I am thinking about doing a ski marathon next winter. I was wondering
how this might compare to training for a running marathon? Would a 45k
ski marathon be the same as a 45k road marathon.
No much easier to ski 45 than run 45!

No much easier to ski 45 than run 45

- agreed, I would focus on the technique and on the upper body
strength (if already in shape due to running experience).

On Tue, 1 Feb 2011 20:05:56 -0000
"Neil" wrote:

Dear All,
I am thinking about doing a ski marathon next winter. I was wondering
how this might compare to training for a running marathon? Would a
45k ski marathon be the same as a 45k road marathon.

Depending on the course, easier in the sense that you get to use upper
and lower body and get free glide some of the way, harder in that the
energy demand is much greater. Of course, you can walk either.

Gene

Neil wrote:
Dear All,
I am thinking about doing a ski marathon next winter. I was wondering
how this might compare to training for a running marathon? Would a 45k
ski marathon be the same as a 45k road marathon.

No, not at all, assuming you have decent skiing technique: The ski
marathon has many more resting opportunities.

In the old days we had to ski for 1.5 hours for every hour we were
allowed to enter in the (orienteering) training diary.

OTOH, if you have done a lot of running, including several marathons (of
the 42+K kind), and started skiing more recently, then the ski race
might take a lot out of you. :-)

Terje

--
- Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

Depending on the course, easier in the sense that you get to use upper
and lower body and get free glide some of the way, harder in that the
energy demand is much greater. Of course, you can walk either.

Gene

I'd be interested to see data on this Gene. If you ran a 2:45 marathon
(42k) and skied a 2:45 (42k) marathon, how much would the energy
requirements differ? work = force x distance, so if you are going the same
difference I would think that the force required to make you move would be
SMALLER for skiing. That glide is a huge advantage in calorie savings?

JKal.

outsideinmi wrote:

Depending on the course, easier in the sense that you get to use upper
and lower body and get free glide some of the way, harder in that the
energy demand is much greater. Of course, you can walk either.

Gene

I'd be interested to see data on this Gene. If you ran a 2:45 marathon
(42k) and skied a 2:45 (42k) marathon, how much would the energy
requirements differ? work = force x distance, so if you are going the same
difference I would think that the force required to make you move would be
SMALLER for skiing. That glide is a huge advantage in calorie savings?

Glide is everything!

Take a look at the logical endpoint of skating with _very_ good glide:

Ice skating manages nearly 60 km/h on the sprint distances, and nearly
50 km/h on a 10k race: At those speeds wind resistance is huge, large
enough to force them to skate with a totally flat upper body.

In comparison Mr Bolt gets up to 45 km/h or so as his top speed, and
nobody is even close to matching the 10K speed of skiers while running.

Terje

--
- Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

On Wed, 2 Feb 2011 08:15:23 -0500
"outsideinmi" wrote:


Depending on the course, easier in the sense that you get to use
upper and lower body and get free glide some of the way, harder in
that the energy demand is much greater. Of course, you can walk
either.

Gene

I'd be interested to see data on this Gene. If you ran a 2:45
marathon (42k) and skied a 2:45 (42k) marathon, how much would the
energy requirements differ? work = force x distance, so if you are
going the same difference I would think that the force required to
make you move would be SMALLER for skiing. That glide is a huge
advantage in calorie savings?

I don't know if there are any comparative studies, tho wouldn't be
surprised if there are. My only personal comparison is between 10k's,
where running is not even close in energy output (as fatigue). It just
seems logical to me that if you are using more muscle groups and working
against the resistance of the snow - and add uphills - the energy
demand is going to be greater. Or at least you're going to feel a lot
more fatigued.

Runners with decent technique and training float downhills using
relatively little energy. How much skiers can do that depends on the
course. And on a lots of courses, maybe most, rest is often either
short or effectively eliminated by corners and extended downhills, etc.
Remember, skiing most technical and extended downhills (e.g.,
Marquette) requires a great deal of concentration, as well as physical
movement. Road runners don't typically face those demands in nearly the
same quantity.

Gene

On Wed, 2 Feb 2011 11:33:58 -0700
wrote:

On Wed, 2 Feb 2011 08:15:23 -0500
"outsideinmi" wrote:


Depending on the course, easier in the sense that you get to use
upper and lower body and get free glide some of the way, harder in
that the energy demand is much greater. Of course, you can walk
either.

Gene

I'd be interested to see data on this Gene. If you ran a 2:45
marathon (42k) and skied a 2:45 (42k) marathon, how much would the
energy requirements differ? work = force x distance, so if you are
going the same difference I would think that the force required to
make you move would be SMALLER for skiing. That glide is a huge
advantage in calorie savings?

I don't know if there are any comparative studies, tho wouldn't be
surprised if there are. My only personal comparison is between 10k's,
where running is not even close in energy output (as fatigue). It just
seems logical to me that if you are using more muscle groups and
working against the resistance of the snow - and add uphills - the
energy demand is going to be greater. Or at least you're going to
feel a lot more fatigued.

Runners with decent technique and training float downhills using
relatively little energy. How much skiers can do that depends on the
course. And on a lots of courses, maybe most, rest is often either
short or effectively eliminated by corners and extended downhills,
etc. Remember, skiing most technical and extended downhills (e.g.,
Marquette) requires a great deal of concentration, as well as physical
movement. Road runners don't typically face those demands in nearly
the same quantity.


Afterthought: Cross-country skiers are commonly referred to as
the most physically fit athletes among all sports. I don't know if
that's really true, but to the extent it is, it's because they have to
be; i.e., the physical demands are greater. Maybe I'm missing
something, but I'm surprised at the discussion because I would think to
x-c skiers it would be a no-brainer.

Gene