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backcountry touring skis



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 23rd 05, 03:51 PM
Peter Clinch
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Booker C. Bense wrote:

How do you manage to turn on double camber skis?


_ Sidecut, but none of the S-bound skis is anywhere near as stiff
as a double camber waxable ski. They use a negative pattern base
that does not require as much camber to still be relatively fast.


I would suggest the other answer is "practice". Amazing what you can do
with more experience. As long as it's benign snow I can tele and
parallel my sidecut-free track skis, which I certainly haven't /always/
been able to do!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

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  #12  
Old March 23rd 05, 11:02 PM
Tommy T.
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How do you manage to turn on double camber skis?

Sidecut.

I would suggest the other answer is "practice".



Yeah, practice! My son, who has competed in a ski orienteering world
championship on cross country skis, can turn pretty goods telemark turns on
his javelin-shaped skating skis.

Tommy T.


  #13  
Old March 25th 05, 01:39 AM
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My wife and I bought Ursas and E99s, respectively. She noticed that it
was
much easier for her to stay in control on tight trails than it was
skiing the more
traditional length and width skis, like E99s. I've taken the E99's to
the resort
and linked tele turns down blue runs, but this is not what the skis are
designed
for. In the backcountry, unless you're in real soft snow, it's pretty
tough to
get these things to turn. I'm using NNN/BC bindings. If you're
serious
about getting this kind of gear to turn, I'd recommend practicing under

ideal conditions.

By the way, my wife doesn't feel that the Ursa's are any slower than
the more
traditional shaped skis. I had a bad experience with rented Lookouts
(the
predecessor of the Pavo) once where they felt super slow, which steered
me
towards the lengthier E99s. In hindsight, I think that the snow was
just
really sticky that day - or something.

  #14  
Old March 25th 05, 02:40 AM
a
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wrote in message
oups.com...
My wife and I bought Ursas and E99s, respectively. She noticed that it
was
much easier for her to stay in control on tight trails than it was
skiing the more
traditional length and width skis, like E99s. I've taken the E99's to
the resort
and linked tele turns down blue runs, but this is not what the skis are
designed
for. In the backcountry, unless you're in real soft snow, it's pretty
tough to
get these things to turn. I'm using NNN/BC bindings. If you're
serious
about getting this kind of gear to turn, I'd recommend practicing under

ideal conditions.

By the way, my wife doesn't feel that the Ursa's are any slower than
the more
traditional shaped skis. I had a bad experience with rented Lookouts
(the
predecessor of the Pavo) once where they felt super slow, which steered
me
towards the lengthier E99s. In hindsight, I think that the snow was
just
really sticky that day - or something.


Interesting...
I skied a pair of skinny waxless 185's two weeks ago. Normally I ski
205/210. They were noticeably slower (really they are too short for me),
but it was - I'm ashamed to admit it - a joy to feel so unencumbered! Now I
just have to decide between the 175 and 190's. With a well stocked daypack
I'm somewhere in between,..


  #15  
Old March 28th 05, 08:52 PM
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In article ,
Booker C. Bense
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Mar.23.05@telemark. slac.stanford.edu
wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
Hal Murray wrote:


How do you manage to turn on double camber skis?


_ Sidecut, but none of the S-bound skis is anywhere near as stiff
as a double camber waxable ski. They use a negative pattern base
that does not require as much camber to still be relatively fast.


I do downhill/AT skiing as fa as I remember. 5-6 years ago I started XC
skiing. Well, ski-hiking...
This year I started telemarking. I can telemark on my old touring set
(Madshus_something 60-50-55 waxless +Salomon Country9 +SNSProfile). But
it is much easier on my new set (Karhu Vela 70-60-65 -175cm +
SalomonAdventure8 (or Adventure Raid - I've bought both of them because
of lack of the response here)+ SNS BC).
However going up and even running on the flat is awkward (comparing with
that Madshus set).
These Karhu are waxable but do have negative fishscale. I have no idea
how can I wax (I mean gripwaxes and klisters) waxable skis with a
fishscale. I suspect the pattern was made in the ski shop. Should I
return these skis?

:-(
TA
  #16  
Old March 29th 05, 06:55 PM
Booker C. Bense
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
wrote:
In article ,
Booker C. Bense
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Mar.23.05@telemark. slac.stanford.edu
wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
Hal Murray wrote:


How do you manage to turn on double camber skis?


_ Sidecut, but none of the S-bound skis is anywhere near as stiff
as a double camber waxable ski. They use a negative pattern base
that does not require as much camber to still be relatively fast.


I do downhill/AT skiing as fa as I remember. 5-6 years ago I started XC
skiing. Well, ski-hiking...
This year I started telemarking. I can telemark on my old touring set
(Madshus_something 60-50-55 waxless +Salomon Country9 +SNSProfile). But
it is much easier on my new set (Karhu Vela 70-60-65 -175cm +
SalomonAdventure8 (or Adventure Raid - I've bought both of them because
of lack of the response here)+ SNS BC).
However going up and even running on the flat is awkward (comparing with
that Madshus set).


_ There is no free lunch, you have to pick where you want to
compromise performance btw kick'n'glide and making turns.

These Karhu are waxable but do have negative fishscale. I have no idea
how can I wax (I mean gripwaxes and klisters) waxable skis with a
fishscale. I suspect the pattern was made in the ski shop.


_ Highly unlikely. Those are waxless skis. If they have a pattern
cut into the base, you could just fill it in with Ptex. However,
since Ptex repairs aren't sintered they don't hold the wax as
well. Are you having problems getting enough kick out of the
skis? If you really want you can just put kick wax on a negative
pattern base, but in general it doesn't work well and is a
bear to clean afterwards. Probably the only time this really
makes any sense is in hard icy conditions where there is nothing
for the pattern to grip. (i.e. blue klister ).

_ If you need more climbing power, try kicker skins.

Should I
return these skis?


_ If you want to wax, buy waxable skis. It doesn't sound to me
like there's anything wrong with the skis you have.

_ Booker C. Bense

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  #17  
Old April 3rd 05, 09:40 PM
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Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
Booker C. Bense
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Mar.29.05@telemark. slac.stanford.edu
wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
wrote:
In article ,
Booker C. Bense
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Mar.23.05@telemark. slac.stanford.edu
wrote:


These Karhu are waxable but do have negative fishscale. I have no idea
how can I wax (I mean gripwaxes and klisters) waxable skis with a
fishscale. I suspect the pattern was made in the ski shop.


_ Highly unlikely. Those are waxless skis.


So what does 'sintered waxable base' (written on the base) mean??


Are you having problems getting enough kick out of the
skis?

Right

If you really want you can just put kick wax on a negative
pattern base, but in general it doesn't work well and is a
bear to clean afterwards.


Yes, I've realised that already.
:-(


_ If you need more climbing power, try kicker skins.

Should I
return these skis?


_ If you wantto wax, buy waxable skis.


They are supposed to be waxable (according to the info on the base)

It doesn't sound to me
like there's anything wrong with the skis you have.


Nobody understand me
:-(



TA
  #18  
Old April 4th 05, 10:32 PM
Booker C. Bense
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
wrote:
In article ,
Booker C. Bense
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Mar.29.05@telemark. slac.stanford.edu
wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
wrote:
In article ,
Booker C. Bense
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Mar.23.05@telemark. slac.stanford.edu
wrote:


These Karhu are waxable but do have negative fishscale. I have no idea
how can I wax (I mean gripwaxes and klisters) waxable skis with a
fishscale. I suspect the pattern was made in the ski shop.


_ Highly unlikely. Those are waxless skis.


So what does 'sintered waxable base' (written on the base) mean??


_ It means you can hot wax the skis and it will penetrate the
base. Ptex can either be extruded ( bad ) or sintered.
The best no-wax skis are made with sintered bases and either
a positive or negative pattern. The less good ones are extruded
and can't really be hot waxed.

_ Waxless skis are poorly named, they all need some kind of glide
wax to work effectively ( both for glide and kick ). The kick
section won't grip unless the snow slides off easily.

_ I would suggest either taking the skis back or trying kicker
skins. They also may be too long for you as well, most of the
newer skis are meant to be skied shorter. If the ski shop really
did carve a pattern into the base, then I would return them
ASAP. A ski meant for kick waxing is generally going to be too stiff
to work well with a homemade negative pattern base.

_ Booker C. Bense

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  #19  
Old April 5th 05, 09:44 AM
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Posts: n/a
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In article ,
Booker C. Bense
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Apr.04.05@telemark. slac.stanford.edu
wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
wrote:
In article ,
Booker C. Bense
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Mar.29.05@telemark. slac.stanford.edu
wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article ,
wrote:
In article ,
Booker C. Bense
bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Mar.23.05@telemark. slac.stanford.edu
wrote:


These Karhu are waxable but do have negative fishscale. I have no idea
how can I wax (I mean gripwaxes and klisters) waxable skis with a
fishscale. I suspect the pattern was made in the ski shop.

_ Highly unlikely. Those are waxless skis.


So what does 'sintered waxable base' (written on the base) mean??


_ It means you can hot wax the skis and it will penetrate the
base.


Oh, there was just a kind of sarcasm...
Once again: I've bought Karhu Vela with a negative fishscale. Which
seems to not to work.
And on the base one can read: 'sintered waxable base'. Hence my
suspicions...
[...]

_ I would suggest either taking the skis back or trying kicker
skins. They also may be too long for you as well, most of the
newer skis are meant to be skied shorter.


They ARE short. I am 182cm/75kg. My classic skis are about 200cm. These
Karhu are 175cm.

If the ski shop really
did carve a pattern into the base, then I would return them
ASAP. A ski meant for kick waxing is generally going to be too stiff
to work well with a homemade negative pattern base.


I will try to do that...
:-(
I will see if they take them back...

TA
 




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