Can you stop if you fall?

Bob F wrote:

I should add - large moguls are not necessarily a good thing. They can be
brutal.

Guy died at Heavenly a couple of years ago, on the Gunbarrel moguls.
Bounced to death. I'm not kidding. Be careful out there.

On 13 Feb, 14:46, Richard Henry wrote:
On Feb 12, 3:55*pm, "Tom" wrote:

I was at Gore Mountain last week.
They have a sign at the top saying that you will not stop sliding if you
fall. *They are 35 degrees and one was pretty much smooth ice, so I believe
it. *(Fortunately the one I did fall on had rather large moguls...)

I suppose you will be stopped by the trees once you slide off the trail, but
I wonder if there is a safer way to stop.

The real pain in the ass is if both binding releases work, AND the
brakes work, AND then you get to work your way back up the ice in
quest of your gear.

I have tried the ski pole thing and could not get it to work. I had
practised it beforehand to a small degree but when I needed it
the speed built up so quickly that it was of no use at all. Ended
up a proper 'yard sale' - both poles, both gloves (woolen mits),
sunglasses, hat, and of course skis; strewn all down the hill,
including the one that had pre-released at the very top
precipitating the fall No injuries except to nerves. Maybe
a year later looked in to the same piste from the side and knees
immediately started knocking.

I was subsequently taught something by a highly experienced
instructor (Andy Jerram think) as follows:-

Arrange yourself on your front with boots down the hill.
Do a press up on to your toes.

This is very good for sure on soft snow. I have once used it
on a very steep slope and I stopped instantly. It was extremely
frightening although there was a decent run-out I would have
been going very fast if I had not landed in the correct orientation
and in pure terror jammed arms and toes into the slope.

I think you should practise self arrest before you need it
'cos it all can happen very, very quickly on a steep slope.

Regarding bumps being "good for stopping". I was last in
a group skiing on a pretty steep entry portion to
couloir Sous Telepherique at Courcheval. I was a
bit nervous since it was pretty steep for a few yards
and the prospects for stopping were not ideal. The
skier in front of me fell and slid for several hundred yards
from the steep bit, over some bumps, then finally on to
the run out. She did not stop until she reached the point
where the rest of the group had stopped as the slope levelled
out. It was too steep at the top to bump up, and seemed to flow
back to a smooth slope after each skier.

I was left a bit wobbly and chickend out of the steep bit
by sideslipping for 10 yards or so.

It was in a way quite amusing, she was not hurt and the
aucoustic accompaniment made during the impact with
the bumps was entertaining.

Squeek ..... squeek ..... squeek ..... ..... squeal ..............

Hmmm, skier as musical instrument?

Tom wrote:

Can you stop if you fall?

Of course.

Friction and gravity being what they are, everything stops eventually.

//Walt

bod43 wrote:
On 13 Feb, 14:46, Richard Henry wrote:
On Feb 12, 3:55 pm, "Tom" wrote:

I was at Gore Mountain last week.
They have a sign at the top saying that you will not stop sliding
if you fall. They are 35 degrees and one was pretty much smooth
ice, so I believe it. (Fortunately the one I did fall on had rather
large moguls...)

I suppose you will be stopped by the trees once you slide off the
trail, but I wonder if there is a safer way to stop.

The real pain in the ass is if both binding releases work, AND the
brakes work, AND then you get to work your way back up the ice in
quest of your gear.

I have tried the ski pole thing and could not get it to work. I had
practised it beforehand to a small degree but when I needed it
the speed built up so quickly that it was of no use at all. Ended
up a proper 'yard sale' - both poles, both gloves (woolen mits),
sunglasses, hat, and of course skis; strewn all down the hill,
including the one that had pre-released at the very top
precipitating the fall No injuries except to nerves. Maybe
a year later looked in to the same piste from the side and knees
immediately started knocking.

I was subsequently taught something by a highly experienced
instructor (Andy Jerram think) as follows:-

Arrange yourself on your front with boots down the hill.
Do a press up on to your toes.

This is very good for sure on soft snow. I have once used it
on a very steep slope and I stopped instantly. It was extremely
frightening although there was a decent run-out I would have
been going very fast if I had not landed in the correct orientation
and in pure terror jammed arms and toes into the slope.

I think you should practise self arrest before you need it
'cos it all can happen very, very quickly on a steep slope.

Another advantage of the ski-pole-arrest is that even if it doesn't stop you
immediately, at least it slows your upper body, so that your feet will rotate
around until they are below you, which if not only a safer position, but does
allow you to use them better to slow yourself.

Another issue, about using your toes to arrest. Watch out for rocks. I once
severely sprained my foot while ice axe arresting while glissading on Mt Ranier.
My toe hit a rock buried in the snow - ouch! It made for a long hike out.

Walt wrote:
Tom wrote:

Can you stop if you fall?

Of course.

Friction and gravity being what they are, everything stops eventually.

//Walt

didn't you ever read Journey to the Center of the Earth?

lal_truckee wrote:
Walt wrote:
Tom wrote:

Can you stop if you fall?

Of course.

Friction and gravity being what they are, everything stops eventually.


didn't you ever read Journey to the Center of the Earth?

Yep. I even listened to Rick Wakeman's concept album by the same name.

Proof positive that everything stops eventually, even if it seem like
it's taking *forever* before it finally does.

//Walt

Bob F wrote:
Alan Fried wrote:
"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Bob F wrote:
Tom wrote:
I was at Gore Mountain last week.
They have a sign at the top saying that you will not stop sliding
if you fall. They are 35 degrees and one was pretty much smooth
ice, so I believe it. (Fortunately the one I did fall on had
rather large moguls...)
I suppose you will be stopped by the trees once you slide off the
trail, but I wonder if there is a safer way to stop.

Ski pole arrest.

Grab above the basket of one pole with the opposite hand. Jam the
tip into the ice/snow, using the pole hand to apply pressure, and
the basket hand to take the breaking force. It's always worked for
me, although I did break one pole doing it. Of course, that pole
was 30 years old. And it still stopped me.

I should add - large moguls are not necessarily a good thing. They
can be brutal.

Also, the lack of poles is one worry I have when snowboarding, for
just this reason.

I went down a steep icy double diamond once where a ski patrol woman
at the top was telling everyone "if you fall, you will slide to the
bottom". I was having a great time boogieing the bumps, when
suddenly someone sliding from above took me out like a bowling pin.
I quickly arrested, then watched the guy that took me out slide to
the bottom. I then skied down, picking up the pieces as I went. A
true yard sale.
Thats frighteening.

Same thing happened to me at Sunday River on
the double black diamond White Heat.

I lost an edge as well as my poles and went
sliding head first until I came to a stop
1/2 way down.

Never thought there was a way to stop
until you came to a flat part of the mountain.

Sounds like an excellent reason to wear your pole straps. Once you
lose your poles, you are S.O.L.

Sadly current advice is not to use pole straps as they can break your
wrists. mind you I'm interest to hear first hand accounts of pole arrest
working because they aren't supposed to work either.


--
Chris *:-)

Rule 1 - Me first
Rule 2 - Downhill Good, Uphill BAD!
Rule 3 - Skis at the bottom, Head at the top!

www.suffolkvikings.org.uk

MoonMan wrote:
Bob F wrote:
Alan Fried wrote:
"Bob F" wrote in message
...
Bob F wrote:
Tom wrote:
I was at Gore Mountain last week.
They have a sign at the top saying that you will not stop sliding
if you fall. They are 35 degrees and one was pretty much smooth
ice, so I believe it. (Fortunately the one I did fall on had
rather large moguls...)
I suppose you will be stopped by the trees once you slide off the
trail, but I wonder if there is a safer way to stop.
Ski pole arrest.

Grab above the basket of one pole with the opposite hand. Jam the
tip into the ice/snow, using the pole hand to apply pressure, and
the basket hand to take the breaking force. It's always worked for
me, although I did break one pole doing it. Of course, that pole
was 30 years old. And it still stopped me.
I should add - large moguls are not necessarily a good thing. They
can be brutal.

Also, the lack of poles is one worry I have when snowboarding, for
just this reason.

I went down a steep icy double diamond once where a ski patrol woman
at the top was telling everyone "if you fall, you will slide to the
bottom". I was having a great time boogieing the bumps, when
suddenly someone sliding from above took me out like a bowling pin.
I quickly arrested, then watched the guy that took me out slide to
the bottom. I then skied down, picking up the pieces as I went. A
true yard sale.
Thats frighteening.

Same thing happened to me at Sunday River on
the double black diamond White Heat.

I lost an edge as well as my poles and went
sliding head first until I came to a stop
1/2 way down.

Never thought there was a way to stop
until you came to a flat part of the mountain.
Sounds like an excellent reason to wear your pole straps. Once you
lose your poles, you are S.O.L.

Sadly current advice is not to use pole straps as they can break your
wrists. mind you I'm interest to hear first hand accounts of pole arrest
working because they aren't supposed to work either.


Well I've always used my straps and have also used a pole arrest
succesfully on Piste M above Verdons cable car station in Courchevel.

I was moving pretty fast on my back feet first heading for a group of
standing skiers and more worryingly some crossed black and yellow poles
(and I wasn't familiar with that run then so didn't know what hazard
they were marking).

I remembered the advice I'd read here many years ago and tried the
arrest with my old poles (alu., bought in Italy 30+ years ago,
originally green but not completely paint-free) and it slowed me down
and then stopped me before I hit anyone/anything.

As it was spring I was in just a furry fleece which picked up quite a
lot of snow which cause much merriment when I walked into the Verdons
bar. Sadly it has changed hands this season so all our old friends on
the staff have disappeared and the prices are ridiculous, but we did get
a free baseball cap each with our coffees - pity we won't wear them or
ever go back !

I guess it was the steepness rather than iciness that was preventing me
from getting an edge and stopping, so that's maybe why it worked...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:03:45 -0000, "MoonMan"
wrote this crap:

until you came to a flat part of the mountain.

Sounds like an excellent reason to wear your pole straps. Once you
lose your poles, you are S.O.L.


Sadly current advice is not to use pole straps as they can break your
wrists. mind you

Aye matey. tis the truth you speak.

I'm interest to hear first hand accounts of pole arrest
working because they aren't supposed to work either.

I usually pull out a dagger, and plunge it into the ice to stop
myself.

And always jump up and yell, "I meant to do that."




A mighty Hungarian warrior
The blood of Attila runs through me

A mighty Hungarian warrior wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:03:45 -0000, "MoonMan"
wrote this crap:

until you came to a flat part of the mountain.

Sounds like an excellent reason to wear your pole straps. Once you
lose your poles, you are S.O.L.


Sadly current advice is not to use pole straps as they can break your
wrists. mind you

Aye matey. tis the truth you speak.

I'm interest to hear first hand accounts of pole arrest
working because they aren't supposed to work either.

I usually pull out a dagger, and plunge it into the ice to stop
myself.

Surely your dagger is so sharp it would cut cleanly through the ice and not
slow you down at all.


--

Chris *:-)