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#1
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XC ski center: viable business?
As a spin-off of the thread on Salmon Hills, purely out of curiosity,
- is running a XC ski center a viable business model at all? What % of XC ski start-ups make it through the first ~5 years? The 2 places I've skied at (and love skiing at) that on the surface looked like successful businesses are Royal Gorge, CA (which rumors say was supposed to have been sold to a housing developer had it not been for the current housing crisis) and Lapland Lake, NY. |
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#2
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XC ski center: viable business?
On Dec 2, 9:16*pm, "
wrote: As a spin-off of the thread on Salmon Hills, purely out of curiosity, - is running a XC ski center a viable *business model at all? Viable at what level? To pay taxes? a part-time worker? a mortgage? a whole income? for one person or more? I'd think you'd want to diversify/multiply the income streams from the property. ...If 'most income' is your goal. But more cashflow doesn't always bring optimized profit! Ya gotta watch out for "dealing in cattle to buy your shoelaces." !!! If you want to do more than just (hopefully) pay part-timers during the winter, and if you want more security than prayers for snow brings, then I'd think you'd need profitable activities occurring on the land year-round and in diverse ways during the snow-season. But, again, you could totally minimize operations to do just some one aspect: like offer cleared trails on a concession to public access land and have a feed-tube and day-pass membership system. That's your baseline income option, right? Don't even offer parking, a warming hut or grooming! You'd then need roadside parking options or parking that would be available somehow (a lot for hikers/hunters is already cleared nearby, say). The next steps up are to provide parking and a warming hut / restroom and/or groomed trails. Then groomed trails of various skill-levels, then trails in the two modes. Then rentals, classes and someone one-site. Then fancier grooming... The limitless sky is coming up! Options for seasonal and supplemental income streams: *3D archery range -- and hosting events/competitions *mt-bike trails -- again, hosting events *cyclocross course! -- hosting... *old-timey sleigh rides, wagon-rides, horse-back trails -- dinners out on the trails (this is what the Breck Nordic Center does or used to do -- during the ski season) *day and NIGHT skiing, of course *snow-making loop *cafe / restaurant / day-lodge food *B&B / lodge / cabins *river thru property for fishing, canoe put-in ops *retail ski shop and year-round sport shop *bike, canoe, ski (etc) rentals *lessons / clinics / demo-days *sponsor clubs and teams -- in all activities done on site --JP oyb |
#3
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XC ski center: viable business?
On Dec 3, 10:07*am, jeff potter wrote:
On Dec 2, 9:16*pm, " wrote: As a spin-off of the thread on Salmon Hills, purely out of curiosity, - is running a XC ski center a viable *business model at all? Viable at what level? To pay taxes? a part-time worker? a mortgage? a whole income? for one person or more? I'd think you'd want to diversify/multiply the income streams from the property. ...If 'most income' is your goal. But more cashflow doesn't always bring optimized profit! Ya gotta watch out for "dealing in cattle to buy your shoelaces." !!! If you want to do more than just (hopefully) pay part-timers during the winter, and if you want more security than prayers for snow brings, then I'd think you'd need profitable activities occurring on the land year-round and in diverse ways during the snow-season. But, again, you could totally minimize operations to do just some one aspect: like offer cleared trails on a concession to public access land and have a feed-tube and day-pass membership system. That's your baseline income option, right? Don't even offer parking, a warming hut or grooming! You'd then need roadside parking options or parking that would be available somehow (a lot for hikers/hunters is already cleared nearby, say). The next steps up are to provide parking and a warming hut / restroom and/or groomed trails. Then groomed trails of various skill-levels, then trails in the two modes. Then rentals, classes and someone one-site. Then fancier grooming... The limitless sky is coming up! Options for seasonal *and supplemental income streams: *3D archery range -- and hosting events/competitions *mt-bike trails -- again, hosting events *cyclocross course! -- hosting... *old-timey sleigh rides, wagon-rides, horse-back trails -- dinners out on the trails (this is what the Breck Nordic Center does or used to do -- during the ski season) *day and NIGHT skiing, of course *snow-making loop *cafe / restaurant / day-lodge food *B&B / lodge / cabins *river thru property for fishing, canoe put-in ops *retail ski shop and year-round sport shop *bike, canoe, ski (etc) rentals *lessons / clinics / demo-days *sponsor clubs and teams -- in all activities done on site PS... *tubing hill *tobaggan run *sled hill *ski lifts of some types perhaps *in addition to having a river run thru it --- have some big hills on it so the BC and snowboard types can have their fun --- add a rope tow --- more limitless sky (for projects) opening up in this direction, again depending on goals *ice rink (plow a pond?) for skating, hockey, speed-skating -- rentals, leagues The more craziness attempted the more the owner should be very handy with engines, plumbing, welding, in addition to business and marketing... Keeping costs down is key. Then again some places opt for the "assemble a great team" approach. Still, teams fall apart and the owner should be jack of all. I worked at Breck Nordic Center a season and Gene Dayton certainly jumped into everything a mile a minute. ...Marketing, politics, plumbing, grooming... The XC Ski HQ in Roscommon, run by Bob Frye, is a center that seems to keep going strong and is darn diverse in many of the ways I list. With Bob you can add "cook" to the list -- and he even has packaged and sold hot-sauces on the side. His land/trails are kinda flat -- pretty and forested but flat and kinda uniform -- 10 km of similar terrain -- accessed across a busy road -- yet he makes it hop and it's certainly a dandy resort to visit. His daylodge, patio, shop and cafe are a great place to take a break. He's on the razor edge of the snowbelt. He's close for the downstaters. He has snow-making for a 1km loop. His snow seems darn reliable for his location. He's an hour closer to metro areas than most resorts. So his actual land isn't the best in terms of a "location," but its location is! He's hospitable, offering many amenities. He promotes a club-skier atmosphere with a big emphasis on kids, juniors, high school programs (do youngsters really need challenging terrain?). If he had a river, hills and a really big hill for BCer's...wow... --JP |
#4
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XC ski center: viable business?
I started a discussion topic in XCSkiForum a couple of years ago about
the economics of cross-country ski areas. In general, cross-country skiing doesn't seem to be a big money-maker. Most cross-country ski areas in North America are either associated with another business (often a downhill ski area or a lodging business) or are government- subsidized. The recent example of the Windblown ski touring center in New Hampshire illustrates the financial challenges facing cross-country skiing. As I understand the plans of the non-profit organization that seeks to buy Windblown, they expect the cross-country skiing operations to essentially break even. But, to acquire the touring center, they need to raise a substantial amount of capital (approximately $2 million). (Part of the money is for capital improvements such as snowmaking, but the majority is just to buy up the land.) It's hard to see how a free-standing cross-country ski area can be viable in a capitalist economy, if it requires a tremendous capital investment and does not make a profit large enough to justify that investment. |
#5
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XC ski center: viable business?
Jean MacInness seems to make a very decent go of a standalone center
with Bohart Ranch in Bozeman. While I don't know all the ins and outs of it, on the surface things that have helped a lot there are - half and/or full-day school programs daily from early January into March; - having a part-owning son who does most of the grooming year around, presumably at reduced wages and with benefits coming from his other job or work; - big money from organizations for meets, such as NCAA, SuperTour, etc. Gene P.S. Jean is about 70 and I've heard that she'd like to sell the operation, though I'm not sure if she's actively pursued it. On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 07:36:34 -0800 (PST) Lew Lasher wrote: I started a discussion topic in XCSkiForum a couple of years ago about the economics of cross-country ski areas. In general, cross-country skiing doesn't seem to be a big money-maker. Most cross-country ski areas in North America are either associated with another business (often a downhill ski area or a lodging business) or are government- subsidized. The recent example of the Windblown ski touring center in New Hampshire illustrates the financial challenges facing cross-country skiing. As I understand the plans of the non-profit organization that seeks to buy Windblown, they expect the cross-country skiing operations to essentially break even. But, to acquire the touring center, they need to raise a substantial amount of capital (approximately $2 million). (Part of the money is for capital improvements such as snowmaking, but the majority is just to buy up the land.) It's hard to see how a free-standing cross-country ski area can be viable in a capitalist economy, if it requires a tremendous capital investment and does not make a profit large enough to justify that investment. |
#6
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XC ski center: viable business?
Von Trapp Family Lodge appears to do VERY well as an XC ski resort.
Well, at least they started as an XC ski resort - now they have golf and high-end condos. At least on the surface it seems to be a profitable business. |
#7
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XC ski center: viable business?
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#8
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XC ski center: viable business?
On Dec 3, 1:40*pm, "
wrote: Von Trapp Family Lodge appears to do VERY well as an XC ski resort. Well, at least they started as an XC ski resort - now they have golf and high-end condos. At least on the surface it seems to be a profitable business. They are not what I'd call a "free-standing" cross-country ski area, because they are connected to a successful hotel. The hotel was there first, then they added cross-country skiing as an amenity for their guests, and, in time, the cross-country ski area has grown to become successful in its own right, probably one of the most successful in New England. But they undoubtedly make much more money from real estate than from their (admittedly very successful) cross-country ski operations! |
#9
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XC ski center: viable business?
Viable at what level? To pay taxes? a part-time worker? a mortgage? a whole income? for one person or more? Like, support one family and send 1-2 kids to college. I suppose running a XC center requires the owner to live on site, or within a daily commuting distance. Which probably means both spouses living, essentially, in the middle of nowhere. Clearly it was a problem for the new owners of SH. |
#10
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XC ski center: viable business?
Plus, if I recall correctly, Von Trapp has a rather extensive shop
business, both ski-related and tourist goodies, far more investment and inventory than the average center can support. Gene On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 13:10:38 -0800 (PST) Lew Lasher wrote: On Dec 3, 1:40*pm, " wrote: Von Trapp Family Lodge appears to do VERY well as an XC ski resort. Well, at least they started as an XC ski resort - now they have golf and high-end condos. At least on the surface it seems to be a profitable business. They are not what I'd call a "free-standing" cross-country ski area, because they are connected to a successful hotel. The hotel was there first, then they added cross-country skiing as an amenity for their guests, and, in time, the cross-country ski area has grown to become successful in its own right, probably one of the most successful in New England. But they undoubtedly make much more money from real estate than from their (admittedly very successful) cross-country ski operations! |
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