Ankles Externally rotated - are angled bindings possible?

Hello there,

I'm an intermediate skiier. My ankles are externally rotated relative to my knees. My footbeds are not pronated or supinated, my toes just point outward. When I ride the ski lift, my ski tips point way out and I'm always bumping into other people skis.

I've spent the past year skiing every other weekend at Cascade Mtn in Wisconsin, and the runs are so short, that it never really bothered me. This week, we went on our first real "ski trip," to Copper Mountain and with the runs so long, my knees are really starting to bother me.

The problem stems from the fact that I have to internally rotate my knees in order to keep my skis parallel, and when I ski for twenty minutes straight down these long runs, it really puts a strain on my knee ligaments, and knee stabilizers (quadriceps).

My question is this: is there a way for a ski tech to mount my bindings on my skis at an angle so that when my feet are in a neutral position, the skis are acutally parallel? Has anyone acutally heard of this being done?

Thanks,

ventivent

Here's a poorly photoshopped example of what I had in mind: (left pic binding straight on, right pic binding rotated at a slight angle)

ventivent wrote:
Hello there,

I'm an intermediate skiier. My ankles are externally rotated relative
to my knees. My footbeds are not pronated or supinated, my toes just
point outward. When I ride the ski lift, my ski tips point way out and
I'm always bumping into other people skis.

In my understanding, toes pointed out IS pronation. This is usually
accompanied by a dropping of the inside ankle bone.

Don't sweat rapping other people's skis. We all do this.

I've spent the past year skiing every other weekend at Cascade Mtn in
Wisconsin, and the runs are so short, that it never really bothered me.
This week, we went on our first real "ski trip," to Copper Mountain and
with the runs so long, my knees are really starting to bother me.

This may or may not be due to your ankle rotation.

The problem stems from the fact that I have to internally rotate my
knees in order to keep my skis parallel, and when I ski for twenty
minutes straight down these long runs, it really puts a strain on my
knee ligaments, and knee stabilizers (quadriceps).

Skiing puts strain on all of these. Extreme strain on quads may
be due to skiing in "the back seat".

My question is this: is there a way for a ski tech to mount my bindings
on my skis at an angle so that when my feet are in a neutral position,
the skis are acutally parallel? Has anyone acutally heard of this
being done?

In a word, no! You wouldn't like it much either. The cues your
feet/legs would give you would wreak havoc with what your mind
is telling you about your skis.

What *would* help probably is properly fitted foot beds made
by a REAL pedorthist, not just a shop rat who makes custom
foot beds. What you want is orthotics which correct your flat-
footed-ness enough (which is probably the source of your ankle
rotation) to line your feet up without torquing your knees.

I tell you this from experience. My feet are VERY flat. Because
of this I toe out, just like you are experiencing. The problem
isn't extreme, so I am content just with custom footbeds from
Sure Foot. They work well for me, but you may need something/
someone with more skill.

Here in the east I would send you to Greg Hoffman at Green
Mountain Orthopedic Laboratory at Stratton Mountain. There is
also someone equally good at Aspen. But neither of these works
for the upper Midwest. I might suggest finding your pedorthist
(which I think is the correct spelling) and if he isn't up on
the needs of skiers, that he contact and work with Greg Hoffman
at Stratton.

Thanks,

ventivent

Here's a poorly photoshopped example of what I had in mind: (left pic
binding straight on, right pic binding rotated at a slight angle)
[image: http://pubweb.northwestern.edu/~adhw...istraight.jpg][image:
http://pubweb.northwestern.edu/~adhwang/skiangle.jpg]

Hi,

Thanks for your informative response. I'm actually a physiatrist (sports medicine doc) so I'm pretty in tune with my feet. Pronation at the foot level is when the footbeds roll inwards...in people who pronate, it tends to be associated with external rotation because of the way the ankle bones are attached to the tibia and fibula.

I guess my quads just aren't used to the increased activity; I'll probably have a custom orthotic made, and go from there.

this happens to me too , I thought it was because I was bow legged , but I
think I'm flat footed too . How do you know if your flat footed ? I might
consider custom footbeds too . Do they re-use your shell and make a new
liner ? It might improve my skiing , I wonder if this is making things
harder.

"ventivent" wrote in message
...

Hi,

Thanks for your informative response. I'm actually a physiatrist
(sports medicine doc) so I'm pretty in tune with my feet. Pronation at
the foot level is when the footbeds roll inwards...in people who
pronate, it tends to be associated with external rotation because of
the way the ankle bones are attached to the tibia and fibula.

I guess my quads just aren't used to the increased activity; I'll
probably have a custom orthotic made, and go from there.


--
ventivent

ventivent wrote:
Hi,

Thanks for your informative response. I'm actually a physiatrist
(sports medicine doc) so I'm pretty in tune with my feet. Pronation at
the foot level is when the footbeds roll inwards...in people who
pronate, it tends to be associated with external rotation because of
the way the ankle bones are attached to the tibia and fibula.

I guess my quads just aren't used to the increased activity; I'll
probably have a custom orthotic made, and go from there.


And remember the neutral stance. Being too far back will
*kill* your quads.

ventivent wrote in
:


Hello there,

I'm an intermediate skiier. My ankles are externally rotated relative
to my knees. My footbeds are not pronated or supinated, my toes just
point outward. When I ride the ski lift, my ski tips point way out and
I'm always bumping into other people skis.

I've spent the past year skiing every other weekend at Cascade Mtn in
Wisconsin, and the runs are so short, that it never really bothered me.
This week, we went on our first real "ski trip," to Copper Mountain and
with the runs so long, my knees are really starting to bother me.

The problem stems from the fact that I have to internally rotate my
knees in order to keep my skis parallel, and when I ski for twenty
minutes straight down these long runs, it really puts a strain on my
knee ligaments, and knee stabilizers (quadriceps).

My question is this: is there a way for a ski tech to mount my bindings
on my skis at an angle so that when my feet are in a neutral position,
the skis are acutally parallel? Has anyone acutally heard of this
being done?

I've never heard of it being done - which may indicate a lack of
knowledge, or that it just isn't a good solution. So sorry, no help
there.

However, by coincidence I had a discussion on a similar topic recently.
The last time I went skiing, I was riding a chair with an older guy who
is very enthusiastic, and always looking to learn new things. One thing
he'd been told recently was to use the time in the chair for a
strengthening excercise. When anyone sits on a chairlift, their skis
seem to naturally point apart, toes out. He (and now I) tries to sit
with the skis parallel to each other. This works some smaller leg
muscles, that apparently are good to work on for skiing. It may help you
achieve a certain amount of toe-in through improved muscle tone.

Worth a try.

dh

"ventivent" wrote in message
...
My ankles are externally rotated relative
to my knees. My footbeds are not pronated or supinated, my toes just
point outward. When I ride the ski lift, my ski tips point way out and
I'm always bumping into other people skis.

My slightly informed thoughts (some relate to earlier posts, rather than the
original), which may be a bit iconoclastic:

My ankles and knees are the same, though perhaps not to the same degree.
I've always heard it referred to as "knock-kneed." Bow-legged is the
opposite.

It isn't a question of flat feet, or the ankle moving sideways or anything
like that. Indeed, I have relatively high arches. It's a question of the
tibia being slightly twisted, so that the plane in which the knee bends
(which, at least in a healthy knee, is a single plane ... unlike a lot of
other joints, knees do not bend in multiple dimensions) doesn't line up with
the foot.

I think the best approach -- at least the best primary approach -- is just
to get used to skiing with the knee internally rotated. It does help you
angulate with the outside ski (though not the inside). Supposedly,
knock-kneedness is quite common among successful racers. You might try
fooling with underboot cants, or a cuff adjustment, so that when the knee is
in, the sole of the boot is flat: that would be cants high on the outside or
cuff tipped to the inside. That isn't going to solve the basic problem that
you're rotating the knee in, which uses muscles and the stresses the hip
joint. Then again, skiing is all about using muscles and stressing joints.
Also, how much "tilt" is necessary to flatten your boot sole varies as you
bend your knee.

Some supposed experts may try to "align" you by having you twist your ankle,
so that your foot lines up with the plane in which your knee bends (which,
if your ankle is working normally, tips your foot so it's high on the inside
.... if you walk that way, you'll walk along the outside of your foot. Then
they'll slap big cants under your boot that are high on the inside, to
correct for this. This whole approach seems nuts to me. Even if you could
rotate your ankle that way inside your ski boot, you wouldn't want to.

A big avenue to explo There are some boots that align the foot with the
toe out, at least modestly. It seems to be the major selling point of the
new Fischer Somatec line. Follow the "Boots" link he
http://www.fischerskis.com/en/alpine/ Atomic boots are also aligned like
this, but to a lesser degree. I myself haven't tried either of them. If
there were such a thing as boot demos, I would have by now.

ventivent,

You may want to try www.footproducts.net. We offer custom orthotics
direct from our team of podiatrists. Additionally we carry footwear
that allow you to wear your orthotics for a variety of activities:
boating, golfing, etc..

-Matt