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  #11  
Old December 5th 05, 02:54 PM
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foot2foot wrote:
"Mary Malmros" wrote
foot2foot wrote:
"Mary Malmros" wrote
foot2foot wrote:


Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless.

If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex
outerwear, you're wrong.

I'm not wrong.


The "expert advice" explains in detail the usefulness of the DWR coating.
So, I repeat: if you're calling the DWR coating useless, you're wrong.

Glad to see you're awake. The actual point of the discussion was, can a
coating alone do the same job that a waterproof breathable membrane can do,
coating added or not. The answer is no. You've missed the context and point
of the whole discussion.


The actual point of the discussion was to give some advice to a guy who
had skied Colorado in the spring and was going to Vermont in the winter
and was wondering if his shell w/ fleece layers would be enough.

That is, it was the point before you went off on your witchhunt tirade
about all the useless coatings foisted upon the public by lying cheating
purveyors of inferior gear that's worse than having nothing at all.

Feel better now that you've gotten that off your chest?

If you want to stay dry, you need a gore tex style membrane, not just a
coating the makers claim is water proof /breathable. It's not.


Gore Tex is nice, but not really necessary for inbounds unless you're
skiing in the rain or you fall down a lot. Rain much in Montana?

//Walt
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  #12  
Old December 5th 05, 03:19 PM
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Mary Malmros wrote:


foot2foot wrote:


Glad to see you're awake.



Glad to see you're still committed to treating others in a discussion
with respect, regardless of whether they agree with you or not.


PKB
  #13  
Old December 5th 05, 03:30 PM
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BrritSki wrote:

Mary Malmros wrote:



foot2foot wrote:


Glad to see you're awake.




Glad to see you're still committed to treating others in a discussion
with respect, regardless of whether they agree with you or not.


PKB


Another andiron heard from!

  #14  
Old December 5th 05, 03:34 PM
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Mary Malmros wrote:


BrritSki wrote:

Mary Malmros wrote:



foot2foot wrote:


Glad to see you're awake.




Glad to see you're still committed to treating others in a discussion
with respect, regardless of whether they agree with you or not.


PKB



Another andiron heard from!

You started it with the "intellectual dishonesty" stuff. I responded in
similar vein and then apologised. Haven't heard anything back from you
though. Can you spell hypocririt ?

Go anything else to say on the thread that you thought would "be good" ?
  #15  
Old December 5th 05, 04:12 PM
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BrritSki wrote:

Mary Malmros wrote:



BrritSki wrote:

Mary Malmros wrote:



foot2foot wrote:


Glad to see you're awake.





Glad to see you're still committed to treating others in a
discussion with respect, regardless of whether they agree with you
or not.


PKB




Another andiron heard from!

You started it with the "intellectual dishonesty" stuff. I responded in
similar vein and then apologised. Haven't heard anything back from you
though. Can you spell hypocririt ?


I can; apparently you can't. Your apology was fine, but then you had to
follow it up with a crude, snide, childish personal remark, greatly
diminishing its value. The effect was much as if you'd written an
apology on a piece of paper and then blown your nose on it before
delivering it. I did acknowledge your apology, such as it was; I don't
know what other kind of "hearing-back" you feel that it deserves.
Perhaps you could elaborate on that.

  #16  
Old December 5th 05, 05:21 PM
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Mary Malmros wrote:


BrritSki wrote:

Mary Malmros wrote:



BrritSki wrote:

Mary Malmros wrote:



foot2foot wrote:


Glad to see you're awake.






Glad to see you're still committed to treating others in a
discussion with respect, regardless of whether they agree with you
or not.


PKB




Another andiron heard from!

You started it with the "intellectual dishonesty" stuff. I responded
in similar vein and then apologised. Haven't heard anything back from
you though. Can you spell hypocririt ?



I can; apparently you can't.


whoosh

Your apology was fine, but then you had to
follow it up with a crude, snide, childish personal remark,


I was talking about my apology for that remark.


greatly
diminishing its value. The effect was much as if you'd written an
apology on a piece of paper and then blown your nose on it before
delivering it. I did acknowledge your apology, such as it was; I don't
know what other kind of "hearing-back" you feel that it deserves.
Perhaps you could elaborate on that.

You asked for quotes about Blix "blowing with the wind" and said that
"this should be good". I provided the quotes. Only reply was from Walt
with whom I had a civil exchange. Nothing from you. So good you were
speechless ?
  #17  
Old December 5th 05, 08:54 PM
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bk wrote:
Skiing in Vt this winter. Have only been to Co a few times and always in
spring.
The local shops here tell me that We'll be fine with our shell type jackets
/ pants with lt wt chilis and fleece. Is this correct?


Typical clothing for VT skiing from VtSkier
In addition to proper equipment for EasternFirm(tm) conditions:
Base: Lightweight long johns & tee in polyester or polypro
Shell ski pants, usually multi-layer but not insulated
mid-layer of lightweight fleece pull-over and vest
(the vest is one of many, usually NF Denali).
Shell parka, good gloves, neck gaiter (usually, but
always in my pocket) and hat/helmet and goggles.

If it's cold (below 10 deg F) add fleece pants over
long johns and under shell pants (duh!).
I also have a packable thinsulate jacket which goes
under my shell parka. Sometimes this goes over vest
if it's RealyCold(tm). At that point mittens replace
gloves and I add a face mask. I will also add a
helmet liner below 10 deg.

The second paragraph list has protected me well to
25 degrees below zero. Anything colder I sit out
by the fire.
  #18  
Old December 5th 05, 09:06 PM
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foot2foot wrote:

Ibk" wrote in message
...

Skiing in Vt this winter. Have only been to Co a few times and always in
spring.
The local shops here tell me that We'll be fine with our shell type
jackets / pants with lt wt chilis and fleece. Is this correct?



If you have shells, you can always layer up or down with
clothes underneath the shell.


I kind of said this by posting my clothing list to
this poster.

I have several shells, mostly all I use is shells. It's nice to
change the look now and then you know.


Indeed. A friend of mine's wife is getting into skiing
now that she understands the fashion aspect.

But you *need* waterproof/breathable *membranes*
in the pants and windshell, like gore tex, helly tech, etc.
Columbia, North Face, etc, all make clothes that use
the gore tex type membrane. It will pass water as a vapor,
but not as a liquid. Good stuff.


Waterproof/breathable is NOT necessary for ReallyCold(tm)
weather. My W/B stuff is my lightest clothing. I have
a single layer shell (Gore packlight) and single layer
pants for warm weather. Here in New England even a warm
rainy day can be fun as long as you stay dry. I've
skied in a full on rainstorm wearing my motorcycle
rain suit and waterproof chemical handling rubber gloves.

The snow, as long as there is enough of it, is usually
really good to ski on in the rain.

Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless.


Strongly agree.

If your shells don't have the membrane, you might just get wet
and miserable.


I don't agree with this. If it's cold it's likely
not wet. See above. Until recently I only had my rain
shell (see above) in a waterproof fabric. Then a
ski shop I had done some work for gifted me with a
beautiful Scholler Goretex full parka worth more than
$400 retail. My main jacket all winter long nowadays
when not working.

You should be able to pay retail sixty to eighty bucks for pants,
only nylon and membrane, no insulation, about the same for the
jacket. Since these are usually spring items, you could maybe
even save money this time of year.


Yes, check ebay also and don't buy from anyone with
less than stellar feedback. My most recent rain shell
came from there for about $50. EMS Gore Packlite.
  #19  
Old December 5th 05, 09:11 PM
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Mary Malmros wrote:


foot2foot wrote:

Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless.



If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex
outerwear, you're wrong.


DWR means Durable Water Repellent and it's function
is to make water bead up on the surface as PART of
the total function of a Gore-tex garment. It's not
intended to be water-PROOF.

A coating like the urethane on the inside of my
motorcycle rain suit will become a sauna suit on
a warm drizzly day for a vigorous activity like
skiing. I only haul mine out if the
conditions border on frog-choking RAIN.
  #20  
Old December 5th 05, 11:38 PM
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BrritSki wrote:
Mary Malmros wrote:



BrritSki wrote:

Mary Malmros wrote:



BrritSki wrote:

Mary Malmros wrote:



foot2foot wrote:


Glad to see you're awake.







Glad to see you're still committed to treating others in a
discussion with respect, regardless of whether they agree with you
or not.


PKB





Another andiron heard from!

You started it with the "intellectual dishonesty" stuff. I responded
in similar vein and then apologised. Haven't heard anything back from
you though. Can you spell hypocririt ?




I can; apparently you can't.



whoosh

Your apology was fine, but then you had to follow it up with a crude,
snide, childish personal remark,



I was talking about my apology for that remark.


I never saw it here. Can you point me at it?

 




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