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#1
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required clothing
Skiing in Vt this winter. Have only been to Co a few times and always in
spring. The local shops here tell me that We'll be fine with our shell type jackets / pants with lt wt chilis and fleece. Is this correct? |
#2
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Ibk" wrote in message ... Skiing in Vt this winter. Have only been to Co a few times and always in spring. The local shops here tell me that We'll be fine with our shell type jackets / pants with lt wt chilis and fleece. Is this correct? If you have shells, you can always layer up or down with clothes underneath the shell. I have several shells, mostly all I use is shells. It's nice to change the look now and then you know. But you *need* waterproof/breathable *membranes* in the pants and windshell, like gore tex, helly tech, etc. Columbia, North Face, etc, all make clothes that use the gore tex type membrane. It will pass water as a vapor, but not as a liquid. Good stuff. Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless. If your shells don't have the membrane, you might just get wet and miserable. You should be able to pay retail sixty to eighty bucks for pants, only nylon and membrane, no insulation, about the same for the jacket. Since these are usually spring items, you could maybe even save money this time of year. " |
#3
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foot2foot wrote: Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless. If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex outerwear, you're wrong. |
#4
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"Mary Malmros" wrote in message news:TqXkf.3660$Yh2.1288@trndny01... foot2foot wrote: Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless. If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex outerwear, you're wrong. I'm not wrong. From "REI expert advice". Water-Repellent Coatings To maximize water-resistance and breathability, Gore-Tex outerwear comes with a DWR (durable water repellent) treatment on its outer surface. This DWR causes water to bead up and roll off the garment, which keeps the fabric surface clear so that sweat and body heat can pass through from the inside. DWR treatments also keep the fabric surface drier, which cuts down on evaporative heat loss and keeps your outerwear light and comfortable. Over time, with regular laundering and exposure to the elements, DWR treatments can wear off. When this occurs, water may no longer bead on the surface of the outerwear fabric, and the fabric may absorb some water (NOTE: the Gore-Tex barrier beneath the outer fabric will still stop this moisture from getting to your skin). The best way to renew your DWR is to launder your Gore-Tex outerwear according to the care instructions and iron it using a warm steam setting. This will restore the water beading on the outer surface of the fabric as long as the original water-repellent treatment is present. Unfortunately, there is no permanent water-repellent treatment available. Eventually, after extended wear and/or many washings, the original repellent finish will be depleted and you'll need to use a spray-on or wash-in water-repellency treatment to treat the outer surface of the fabric. You may repeat this process as many times as needed. If all you have on an item of clothing is a sprayed on coating and no membrane and they *claim* it's waterproof breathable, basically what you have is nothing at all, and they're lying. |
#5
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foot2foot wrote: "Mary Malmros" wrote in message news:TqXkf.3660$Yh2.1288@trndny01... foot2foot wrote: Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless. If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex outerwear, you're wrong. I'm not wrong. From "REI expert advice". The "expert advice" explains in detail the usefulness of the DWR coating. So, I repeat: if you're calling the DWR coating useless, you're wrong. I've got a lot of experience with DWR-coated clothing, using it not only for skiing but also for whitewater kayaking, where you _really_ notice the difference (the evaporative cooling that the REI "expert advice" speaks of). Water doesn't seep through a drytop with the DWR coating worn off, but you definitely notice a difference in heat loss. |
#6
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"Mary Malmros" wrote in message news:SVXkf.4679$6Z5.2616@trndny02... foot2foot wrote: "Mary Malmros" wrote in message news:TqXkf.3660$Yh2.1288@trndny01... foot2foot wrote: Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless. If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex outerwear, you're wrong. I'm not wrong. From "REI expert advice". The "expert advice" explains in detail the usefulness of the DWR coating. So, I repeat: if you're calling the DWR coating useless, you're wrong. I've got a lot of experience with DWR-coated clothing, using it not only for skiing but also for whitewater kayaking, where you _really_ notice the difference (the evaporative cooling that the REI "expert advice" speaks of). Water doesn't seep through a drytop with the DWR coating worn off, but you definitely notice a difference in heat loss. Glad to see you're awake. The actual point of the discussion was, can a coating alone do the same job that a waterproof breathable membrane can do, coating added or not. The answer is no. You've missed the context and point of the whole discussion. If you want to stay dry, you need a gore tex style membrane, not just a coating the makers claim is water proof /breathable. It's not. |
#7
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Mary Malmros wrote:
foot2foot wrote: Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless. If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex outerwear, you're wrong. DWR means Durable Water Repellent and it's function is to make water bead up on the surface as PART of the total function of a Gore-tex garment. It's not intended to be water-PROOF. A coating like the urethane on the inside of my motorcycle rain suit will become a sauna suit on a warm drizzly day for a vigorous activity like skiing. I only haul mine out if the conditions border on frog-choking RAIN. |
#8
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VtSkier wrote: Mary Malmros wrote: foot2foot wrote: Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless. If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex outerwear, you're wrong. DWR means Durable Water Repellent and it's function is to make water bead up on the surface as PART of the total function of a Gore-tex garment. It's not intended to be water-PROOF. And yet it's what a lot of people are referring to when they talk about a "waterproof breathable coating". Note that I used ample explication to make it quite clear what I was talking about, so you're picking at nonexistent nits. |
#9
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Mary Malmros wrote:
VtSkier wrote: Mary Malmros wrote: foot2foot wrote: Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless. If you're talking about the DWR coating that's placed on Gore-tex outerwear, you're wrong. DWR means Durable Water Repellent and it's function is to make water bead up on the surface as PART of the total function of a Gore-tex garment. It's not intended to be water-PROOF. And yet it's what a lot of people are referring to when they talk about a "waterproof breathable coating". Note that I used ample explication to make it quite clear what I was talking about, so you're picking at nonexistent nits. And I thought I was expanding on your explication about DWR sprays. I didn't think I was picking nits at all. And actually I don't think that too many people actually believe that user applied sprays actually make a garment waterproof (and breathable to boot). Spraying Scotch Guard on jeans is just too old a trick. It worked, for about half a day, then you went home soaked. Interestingly, and I've done this, spraying Textron or NickWax DWR spray on your non-Gore-tex garment WILL make the water bead up on it but it WON'T make it waterproof. |
#10
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foot2foot wrote:
Ibk" wrote in message ... Skiing in Vt this winter. Have only been to Co a few times and always in spring. The local shops here tell me that We'll be fine with our shell type jackets / pants with lt wt chilis and fleece. Is this correct? If you have shells, you can always layer up or down with clothes underneath the shell. I kind of said this by posting my clothing list to this poster. I have several shells, mostly all I use is shells. It's nice to change the look now and then you know. Indeed. A friend of mine's wife is getting into skiing now that she understands the fashion aspect. But you *need* waterproof/breathable *membranes* in the pants and windshell, like gore tex, helly tech, etc. Columbia, North Face, etc, all make clothes that use the gore tex type membrane. It will pass water as a vapor, but not as a liquid. Good stuff. Waterproof/breathable is NOT necessary for ReallyCold(tm) weather. My W/B stuff is my lightest clothing. I have a single layer shell (Gore packlight) and single layer pants for warm weather. Here in New England even a warm rainy day can be fun as long as you stay dry. I've skied in a full on rainstorm wearing my motorcycle rain suit and waterproof chemical handling rubber gloves. The snow, as long as there is enough of it, is usually really good to ski on in the rain. Waterproof breathable "coatings" are useless. Strongly agree. If your shells don't have the membrane, you might just get wet and miserable. I don't agree with this. If it's cold it's likely not wet. See above. Until recently I only had my rain shell (see above) in a waterproof fabric. Then a ski shop I had done some work for gifted me with a beautiful Scholler Goretex full parka worth more than $400 retail. My main jacket all winter long nowadays when not working. You should be able to pay retail sixty to eighty bucks for pants, only nylon and membrane, no insulation, about the same for the jacket. Since these are usually spring items, you could maybe even save money this time of year. Yes, check ebay also and don't buy from anyone with less than stellar feedback. My most recent rain shell came from there for about $50. EMS Gore Packlite. |
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