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Lighted ski trail cost - ??



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 7th 06, 10:15 PM
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Default Lighted ski trail cost - ??

Our local owners association is trying to "bully" us into agreeing to an
increase in our dues. It was recently put to an association vote and didn't
pass.

So, in a "cost savings" measure they shut off the lights to our lighted 1
mile trail for nordic skiing. Its lit from 6-10pm normally.

How much are they really saving? Can anyone help me here? I need some
numbers to back up my argument that they are NOT really saving any money.

Seems as though a ONE MILLION dollar budget isnt going to be helped by
shutting off the electricity to our little loop. Its really bureaucratic
positions that need eliminating.

HELP PLEASE

JK


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  #2  
Old February 7th 06, 10:45 PM
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I wish *I* had a place to ski at night. Heck, I wish I had a place to ski
that was closer than 200 miles from my home, but that's my problem ;-) Count
the number of lights, multiply by the power for each light (the hard part),
and multiply by the on-time.

Example: lights every 20 meters over 1600m means about 80 lights. If the
lights are like my local (San Jose, CA, USA) street lamps then they consume
about 20 Watts each. These are the most efficient, ugliest (monochrome
yellow "low pressure sodium") lights I know of. I'm not sure they work in
cold climates. Anyway, that comes to 1.6kWatts. Using $0.10/kWHour as the
rate, you get $0.48 per night. Of course, if the lights are the most
inefficient (incandescent) then multiply the power by about 10 and you get
$5 a night. If electricity costs you 0.20/kWH then double it. And if you
have more lights or brighter lights then... well you get the idea.

Do they save any payroll money by turning off the lights? Paying a single
employee to sit around for 4 hours a night would cost more than the
electricity, I would think.

Bob

"32 degrees" wrote in message
...
Our local owners association is trying to "bully" us into agreeing to an
increase in our dues. It was recently put to an association vote and

didn't
pass.

So, in a "cost savings" measure they shut off the lights to our lighted 1
mile trail for nordic skiing. Its lit from 6-10pm normally.

How much are they really saving? Can anyone help me here? I need some
numbers to back up my argument that they are NOT really saving any money.

Seems as though a ONE MILLION dollar budget isnt going to be helped by
shutting off the electricity to our little loop. Its really bureaucratic
positions that need eliminating.

HELP PLEASE

JK




  #3  
Old February 7th 06, 10:46 PM
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Oops, more specific.

No sodium vapor lamps or anything like that. Regular 110volt light bulbs on
little poles strung out about every 50-80 feet. That would make around 80
lights.

cost to run for 4 hours?

JK


  #4  
Old February 7th 06, 11:00 PM
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OK, then $5 per night times 30 nights is $150 per month. Have you thought
about just buying a headlamp? Orienteers use good ones. Ask Terje.

Bob

"32 degrees" wrote in message
...
Oops, more specific.

No sodium vapor lamps or anything like that. Regular 110volt light bulbs

on
little poles strung out about every 50-80 feet. That would make around 80
lights.

cost to run for 4 hours?

JK




  #5  
Old February 8th 06, 03:57 AM
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"32 degrees" wrote in message
...

So, in a "cost savings" measure they shut off the lights to our lighted 1
mile trail for nordic skiing. Its lit from 6-10pm normally.

How much are they really saving? Can anyone help me here? I need some
numbers to back up my argument that they are NOT really saving any money.


Our association manitains 1.5km of lit trail from 5-9pm, and we recently (a
few years ago) estimated the cost at about C$250 per year for electricity.
Rates have gone up about 20% since for each kw/h.

Say $300--$400 per year. The equipment sounds similar.

Blake



  #6  
Old February 8th 06, 04:04 AM
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On Tue, 7 Feb 2006, Bob wrote:

Do they save any payroll money by turning off the lights? Paying a single
employee to sit around for 4 hours a night would cost more than the
electricity, I would think.


That reminded me of this cartoon :-)
http://www.skiforeningen.no/stripe/i...ke=2&year=2006

"There should be a better warning when the
lights are shut off for the night"

--

David Dermott , Wolfville Ridge, Nova Scotia, Canada
email:
WWW pages:
http://www.dermott.ca/index.html


  #7  
Old February 8th 06, 11:12 AM
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Bob wrote:
OK, then $5 per night times 30 nights is $150 per month. Have you thought
about just buying a headlamp? Orienteers use good ones. Ask Terje.


Indeed.

Here in Oslo we have miles & miles of lighted trails, but all serious xc
skiers have bought night-O headlamps anyway: This way we can ski
anywhere on the 2900 (2600?) km trail system. :-)

A proper NiMH battery and 20 W halogene bulb seated in a good reflector
results in better light than even the best lighted ski trail.

Terje

--
-
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
  #8  
Old February 8th 06, 03:18 PM
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David Dermott wrote:
On Tue, 7 Feb 2006, Bob wrote:

Do they save any payroll money by turning off the lights? Paying a single
employee to sit around for 4 hours a night would cost more than the
electricity, I would think.


That reminded me of this cartoon :-)
http://www.skiforeningen.no/stripe/i...ke=2&year=2006

"There should be a better warning when the
lights are shut off for the night"


This has happened to me several times. I didn't wipe out, but I scared
myself in the middle of a descent once. The most scary time was once
the lights shut off at our speed-skating track while I was at full
speed mid-turn.

Joseph

  #9  
Old February 8th 06, 03:21 PM
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Terje Mathisen wrote:
Bob wrote:
OK, then $5 per night times 30 nights is $150 per month. Have you thought
about just buying a headlamp? Orienteers use good ones. Ask Terje.


Indeed.

Here in Oslo we have miles & miles of lighted trails, but all serious xc
skiers have bought night-O headlamps anyway: This way we can ski
anywhere on the 2900 (2600?) km trail system. :-)

A proper NiMH battery and 20 W halogene bulb seated in a good reflector
results in better light than even the best lighted ski trail.

Terje


Sometimes (always?) the shadows from a headlamp highlight the surface
better than a lit trail. At least for me. I still prefer a well lit
trail, but that makes it extra fun to take a small unlit side trail
sometimes.

Joseph

  #10  
Old February 8th 06, 07:07 PM
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Maybe I'm missing something - and maybe the $150 per month is accurate.
But if you're trying to arugue a point with the association, why not
just caculate the power consumption (watts/bulb X # of bulbs), find out
what the power company charges per KWH - and do the math.

I'm thinking it's probalby closer to $50 - $75 per month max.

5 or 6 cents per KWH, 100 watts per bulb (whatever these numbers happen
to be). Throw in 10% power loss in the lines. That could even be
calculated if you know the gauge of the wire and you think you need to
shave that gnat's ass, probably unnecessary detail.

I "think" you're probably talking about 1000 KWH per month, which would
be about $50 - $60 per month + the 10% fudge factor. If you want to
make a point with your association, don't guess, make a calculation.
I'm pretty sure it's even cheaper than you thought.

As for headlamp: yes one can ski with a headlamp, but lit trails are
much, much better and more fun.

 




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