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#1
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Karhu Orions vs. Alpina Lite Terrain
Anybody have any input on which of these similarly sized, metal edged
backcountry skis might be better than the other? I'm in Minnesota, so most of my BC skiing is flat to rolling. I need the edges for icy conditions. Ski safe, Hans |
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#2
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article .com, Trailpatrol wrote: Anybody have any input on which of these similarly sized, metal edged backcountry skis might be better than the other? _ For what? They are both good skis, it's more a question of what you want to get out of them. I'm in Minnesota, so most of my BC skiing is flat to rolling. I need the edges for icy conditions. _ The alpina is going to generally be better turning ski than the Orion. 90-64-80 vs 85-70-80 _ I suspect the Orion will be better on the flats, it's much more of a beefed up touring ski, rather than a slimmed down alpine ski. If you are considering waxless, Karhu's generally have a faster pattern than the Alpina and will likely be lighter. The Alpina Lite Terrain is only light compared to the Alpina Cross terrain, which is pretty much a skinny alpine ski with a waxless base. If you are looking at Alpina Lite Terrain, you should probably also check out the Atomic Sierra and Rainer skis. And if you've got the $$$, I think the Fischer S-bounds skis are hard to beat. I think the deciding factor between these skis would be weight, price and camber. _ Depending on exactly how much turning you plan to do, you might want to look at 3/4 edge skis such as the Alpina Tracker. While they are far from the best sticks for turning, they save some weight, track nicely and have enough grab to survive icy descents. _ Also, some idea of what boots and bindings you plan to use would be helpful in giving ski advice. _ Booker C. Bense -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBQbigTWTWTAjn5N/lAQE0BAP/dnRvWYgHJjWoascIt03QcV7kWReaokXn M8u3K5P4Xbgn8O4Ir7eyvzMGkIcgPSKn1XUmxm3ionnJ+UopMh 89CPJdnfaaz33n ojLL/lFBTBWLr3r0B2XZwneKa5HJNtCAsHeGpzCILJCU/htN79D8q0tsv2eyaK3v MqOdbke4FLA= =HKD9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#3
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Actually, one of our patrollers has Fischer S-bounds and really likes
them. We use Berwin Backcountry Bindings so we can switch between snowshoes and skis without changing boots. (Also you can use ultra-warm Steger Mukluks with Berwins) I am replacing, or augmenting actually, a pair of 2nd generation Trak Bushwackers since the Traks don't have metal edges. They made a Bushwacker XT for a few years that had a partial, but I missed out on them. I'll have to take a look at the Alpina Tracker for that reason. Thanks! Hans |
#4
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article .com, Trailpatrol wrote: Actually, one of our patrollers has Fischer S-bounds and really likes them. We use Berwin Backcountry Bindings so we can switch between snowshoes and skis without changing boots. (Also you can use ultra-warm Steger Mukluks with Berwins) I am replacing, or augmenting actually, a pair of 2nd generation Trak Bushwackers since the Traks don't have metal edges. They made a Bushwacker XT for a few years that had a partial, but I missed out on them. I'll have to take a look at the Alpina Tracker for that reason. _ You might also look at the Karhu Meta, if you want a Bushwacker-like ski with edges and a universal binding. http://tinyurl.com/5nzhv _ I suspect they are dead slow on the flats though. __ Booker C. bense -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBQbso5GTWTAjn5N/lAQG4uQP9GKBL4Hd1i8tlS5juRHPC5eBM6h1Mh25K wVj2RbD94rIYuGadahJwcEmVgELWW6ardxpuZlWlzNWcwdKmVZ 4hriO1JhlC7rPv Rz/RsotBifwcEqaYG5lOL5O9XRex+9LkjQH8GWWr7d79HcfC1ITF9 FezLeZEHLnf B8LBXdl9yag= =i6fU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#5
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"Trailpatrol" wrote:
Anybody have any input on which of these similarly sized, metal edged backcountry skis might be better than the other? I'm in Minnesota, so most of my BC skiing is flat to rolling. I need the edges for icy conditions. I think those 2 skis are pretty different and I question if either of them is really good for flat to rolling terrain unless your goal is to a) look for turns or b) use the skis as snowshoes in the woods without any kick and glide. I classify the Orion as a Catamount type ski after the older Catamount that it replaced. These skis are sort of like sliding snowshoes and have reputations of being great climbers in the no-wax version. More of my thoughts on this type of ski is he http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/Dirt...html#SNOWSHOES I classify the Lite Terrain as a Narrow Shaped ski. They will be better turners but worse in terms of kick and glide. More of my thoughts on this type of ski he http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/Dirt...#NARROW-SHAPED My pref for kick and glide is for narrower skis with tips less than 80mm wide. Here is the link to my full page on the different skis. http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/Dirt...r/bc-skis.html Hope this is helpful. -- Dave ============================================== "It is impossible, or not easy, to do noble acts without the proper equipment." Aristotle, Politics, 1323a-b, trans Jowett ============================================== |
#6
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Thanks for the insights. I have actually been using Bushwackers since
1983, initially with 3-pins, then with the Berwins since 1991 or so. A couple years back, right before Karhu shut down the Trak line, they re-introduced the Bushwacker (What I call "2nd Generation") and a semi-edged version, the Bushwacker XT. For what our patrol does, the BW has been great, and the Catamount/Orion is probably the closest I'll find to what I am used too. I also use 65mm shovel Karhu 10th Mtn. Tours with 3-pins and a full metal edge, with Karhu Convert boots in more open areas. I do get decent glide out of the 2nd Generation BWs. I had to borrow my old pair back (I gave them to a friend) when I broke a binding, and was surprised at the big difference in performance. BTW, I still have, and use my first pair of wooden Trak No-Wax skis; over 30 years old! Ski safe, Hans |
#7
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"Trailpatrol" wrote:
Thanks for the insights. I have actually been using Bushwackers since 1983, initially with 3-pins, then with the Berwins since 1991 or so. A couple years back, right before Karhu shut down the Trak line, they re-introduced the Bushwacker (What I call "2nd Generation") and a semi-edged version, the Bushwacker XT. For what our patrol does, the BW has been great, and the Catamount/Orion is probably the closest I'll find to what I am used too. Nod. For hacking about in the woods with Berwins, Orions would be my first pick. I've been really, really impressed at how well my buds with Catamounts climb on those things. In general, I would definitely stick with positive patterns skis for that sort of thing. I think that would eliminate the Alpinas. Another ski to consider would be the newer Karhu Dorado. I've not seen them up close (nor skied them) but if their no-wax pattern is a long as the Orions are, then it might be a good bet to climb just as well as the Orion with the added benifit of easier turning. -- Dave ============================================== "It is impossible, or not easy, to do noble acts without the proper equipment." Aristotle, Politics, 1323a-b, trans Jowett ============================================== |
#8
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In article , pinnah wrote: "Trailpatrol" wrote: Thanks for the insights. I have actually been using Bushwackers since 1983, initially with 3-pins, then with the Berwins since 1991 or so. A couple years back, right before Karhu shut down the Trak line, they re-introduced the Bushwacker (What I call "2nd Generation") and a semi-edged version, the Bushwacker XT. For what our patrol does, the BW has been great, and the Catamount/Orion is probably the closest I'll find to what I am used too. Nod. For hacking about in the woods with Berwins, Orions would be my first pick. I've been really, really impressed at how well my buds with Catamounts climb on those things. In general, I would definitely stick with positive patterns skis for that sort of thing. I think that would eliminate the Alpinas. _ Nope, the Alpina pattern is definitely postive and IMHO climbs better than just about anything out there[1], which is why it's pretty slow on the flats. The Fischer skis have a negative pattern and the Karhu has a positive pattern, but one that still glides reasonably well ( for a nowax ski ). _ Personally, I don't think positive/negative should be the main deciding factor. For two otherwise equal skis I would pick the negative base, but I would not "rule out" a ski because it had a positive base. Kicker skins are IMHO a must for waxless skis and steeper terrain. They weigh very little and are a handy backup for icy conditions, where no waxless pattern base works well if at all. _ Booker C. Bense [1]- I'm pretty sure tests in Couloir and Backcountry have this same opinion as well. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBQb3lXGTWTAjn5N/lAQGO4gP/b5LjFtQXacyIaddxPjnAaT/IUQp4u6x1 +m3ndttRBOvkL4RsyUvM6Z3Ranu9vGaz9kEvEnGJlZXyvhnW+l yIw7Ohn0Twuy1j gzQxPrfOSPUOw9kxKNbAFOJmAarzOE4pSe/djZZbFd09YkLwF9K4nxO7f38sHznd vV8EVLz972A= =cg1R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
#9
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"Booker C. Bense" bbense+rec.skiing.backcountry.Dec.11.04@telemark. slac.stanford.edu wrote in message ... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [...] _ You might also look at the Karhu Meta, if you want a Bushwacker-like ski with edges and a universal binding. http://tinyurl.com/5nzhv Well, after much agonizing, and finding a few positive reviews of these, I bought a pair. They should be here next week. I'll still get something like the Fisher Boundless Crowns... but the truth is, I do an awful lot of tramping on steep uphills, only to turn around and go down through sparsely tree-covered slopes. My dream would be to climb a few mountains around here on these things. |
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