65 trapped on Lake Louise gondola

If i had turned up to the Gondola 30sec earlier, i would have been
stuck on it also.

The Gondola having a critical fault (i say critical becuse it couldnt
be restarted to get people off) is bad enough... but the mountain
managment crew should be shot!

The Gondola broke down at around 3pm.
When i left for the car-park at around 5pm, no one had yet been rescued
there was not even a sign they would be soon.

Ski patrollers know how to rescue these people... why weren't they
doing thier job 30mins after it had stopped???

Well this must have really sucked!
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...79962b&k=98945

Mark Williams wrote:
If i had turned up to the Gondola 30sec earlier, i would have been
stuck on it also.

The Gondola having a critical fault (i say critical becuse it couldnt
be restarted to get people off) is bad enough... but the mountain
managment crew should be shot!

The Gondola broke down at around 3pm.
When i left for the car-park at around 5pm, no one had yet been rescued
there was not even a sign they would be soon.

Ski patrollers know how to rescue these people... why weren't they
doing thier job 30mins after it had stopped???

You could always ask them and find out, rather than assuming gross
incompetence and loading your musket. Or you could think about it for a
bit. Lift evacs aren't risk-free, for either passengers or rescuers,
and you don't just drag out the bosun's chair the second a lift doesn't
work. Is it possible they waited too long? Yes, but again, cursory
websearch indicates that at first, it seemed like a simple problem that
could be fixed quickly; so much for your "30 minutes".

I have to say, if you take a look at
http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20051...dola_trapped_3,
it looks like some of the parents on the ground really didn't help the
situation any. Sounds like some of them completely lost their
composure. Of course they were upset; on the other hand, the people
were on a _gondola_, meaning they had some shelter from the wind and
cold, and there was no indication that they were in danger of falling.
What's the thing to do in that situation? Stay calm and sit tight; it's
the only thing you can do. But if you're nine years old and your mom,
who's down on the ground, is doing drama over the cellphone ("Oh don't
you worry my precious baby YOU PEOPLE GET MY CHILDREN DOWN RIGHT NOW!
MY CHILDREN ARE GONNA DIE UP THERE!!!"), of course you're gonna freak
out. And neither freakouts on the ground nor freakouts on the gondola
would have helped the situation.

Lifts break down, and lift evacs happen, and anyone who gets on a ski
lift (or puts their kid on a ski lift) and doesn't consider the
possibility that they might be stuck up there for a while, is failing to
take personal responsibility. It's always a possibility.

Mark Williams wrote:
If i had turned up to the Gondola 30sec earlier, i would have been
stuck on it also.

The Gondola having a critical fault (i say critical becuse it couldnt
be restarted to get people off) is bad enough... but the mountain
managment crew should be shot!

The Gondola broke down at around 3pm.
When i left for the car-park at around 5pm, no one had yet been rescued
there was not even a sign they would be soon.

Ski patrollers know how to rescue these people... why weren't they
doing thier job 30mins after it had stopped???

I'm not sure where this gondola is at LL, I don't remember one. But I
did remember a post I made back in 2002 about troubles with Lake
Louise's lifts. I dug it out and here is a quote:

Yeah, I think Top of the World only ran one day that I was there, and
they were loading it as a double instead of a quad on that day.
Apparently, there was a problem with the cable - it had gotten
stretched, or something like that. There were definitely concerns
about safety. I rode up with a Lake Louise patroller who was telling me
all this stuff, and said - I kid you not - "I try to ride it as little
as possible". !

Dave

Dave Stallard wrote:
Mark Williams wrote:

If i had turned up to the Gondola 30sec earlier, i would have been
stuck on it also.

The Gondola having a critical fault (i say critical becuse it couldnt
be restarted to get people off) is bad enough... but the mountain
managment crew should be shot!

The Gondola broke down at around 3pm.
When i left for the car-park at around 5pm, no one had yet been rescued
there was not even a sign they would be soon.

Ski patrollers know how to rescue these people... why weren't they
doing thier job 30mins after it had stopped???


I'm not sure where this gondola is at LL, I don't remember one.

According to the article I posted, it's one year old, so your old post
about lift troubles at Lake Louise doesn't really apply here.

Bob Lee wrote:

Mary Malmros wrote:


Mark Williams wrote:

If i had turned up to the Gondola 30sec earlier, i would have been
stuck on it also.

The Gondola having a critical fault (i say critical becuse it couldnt
be restarted to get people off) is bad enough... but the mountain
managment crew should be shot!

The Gondola broke down at around 3pm.
When i left for the car-park at around 5pm, no one had yet been rescued
there was not even a sign they would be soon.

Ski patrollers know how to rescue these people... why weren't they
doing thier job 30mins after it had stopped???

You could always ask them and find out, rather than assuming gross
incompetence and loading your musket. Or you could think about it for a
bit. Lift evacs aren't risk-free, for either passengers or rescuers,
and you don't just drag out the bosun's chair the second a lift doesn't
work. Is it possible they waited too long? Yes, but again, cursory
websearch indicates that at first, it seemed like a simple problem that
could be fixed quickly; so much for your "30 minutes".


I read today in another skiing forum that in the US, the Forest Service
requires ski area operators on FS land to begin lift evacuations within
30 minutes. I couldn't find a FS reference on-line this evening, but
I'll try to ask some FS people I know about it at work tomorrow. I did
find one ski area patrol SOP on-line that called for evacuations to
begin within 30 minutes, but that was for a chair lift, rather than a
gondola.

But I gotta say, five hours seems like a *long* time. The footage I saw
made it look like the gondy was less than 50 ft AGL. I'd be surprised
if the ski area evacuation SOP set a five hour rescue timeline...or
anywhere close to that.

130 feet at some point, according to the article I posted. Not sure how
relevant that is.

I have to say, if you take a look at
http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20051...dola_trapped_3,
it looks like some of the parents on the ground really didn't help the
situation any. Sounds like some of them completely lost their
composure. Of course they were upset; on the other hand, the people
were on a _gondola_, meaning they had some shelter from the wind and
cold, and there was no indication that they were in danger of falling.
What's the thing to do in that situation? Stay calm and sit tight; it's
the only thing you can do. But if you're nine years old and your mom,
who's down on the ground, is doing drama over the cellphone ("Oh don't
you worry my precious baby YOU PEOPLE GET MY CHILDREN DOWN RIGHT NOW!
MY CHILDREN ARE GONNA DIE UP THERE!!!"), of course you're gonna freak
out. And neither freakouts on the ground nor freakouts on the gondola
would have helped the situation.


OTOH, I agree with you here - people standing around screaming "DO
SOMETHING" aren't a big help. People nowadays seem to get inordinately
****ed off if things don't happen RIGHT NOW. Me, I like to clear the
civilians from the scene during something like that - especially the
screamers.

Well, it's the Divine Right of Parents to go banana-whackies when their
children aren't perfectly safe as houses every last second, but from the
behavior described, I'd say the folks in charge exercised considerable
restraint in not hosing down some of those people with mace. In WFR
they taught us to just keep repeating, "I need you to let me help him,"
until it penetrates or until you can get someone else to firmly escort
the screamer elsewhere. You can't do the job with someone screaming
contrary orders at you.

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:27:39 -0700, AstroPax
wrote:

Well this must have really sucked!

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...79962b&k=98945



No doubt. Question for everybody to argue and get all snippy over
(hopefully):

How many people here, on a sunny day skiing in-bounds lift-served,
pack an extra layer, water and maybe food along, just in case you get
stuck on the last chair for a few cold, windy twilight-into-nighttime
hours?

bw
guessin' "zero"

bdubya wrote:

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:27:39 -0700, AstroPax
wrote:


Well this must have really sucked!

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...79962b&k=98945




No doubt. Question for everybody to argue and get all snippy over
(hopefully):

How many people here, on a sunny day skiing in-bounds lift-served,
pack an extra layer, water and maybe food along, just in case you get
stuck on the last chair for a few cold, windy twilight-into-nighttime
hours?

I don't carry water, but I do carry food (in the form of chocolate Gu --
it's as much for students who are bonking in a more routine way as it is
for the thought of any emergency) and a couple packs of chemical
hand-warmers. It would help a little, but it's not exactly a survival
pack.

Phlubarb wrote:

Mary Malmros wrote:


Well, it's the Divine Right of Parents to go banana-whackies when their
children aren't perfectly safe as houses every last second, but from the
behavior described, I'd say the folks in charge exercised considerable
restraint in not hosing down some of those people with mace. In WFR
they taught us to just keep repeating, "I need you to let me help him,"
until it penetrates or until you can get someone else to firmly escort
the screamer elsewhere. You can't do the job with someone screaming
contrary orders at you.


Haldol, Ativan or, my personal favorite, Milk of Amnesia - Propofol (with this you do need an
IV line) loaded into a dart gun. I've got to deal with this type of interference crap every day of
work. It just makes things sooooo much harder.

Yuk. What do you do for work?

We're in the middle of a tornado watch - there's no place like home, there's no place like
home........

Hang onto the little dog and watch out for the lady on the bicycle.

Mary Malmros wrote:

According to the article I posted, it's one year old, so your old post
about lift troubles at Lake Louise doesn't really apply here.

I think it does. If a key lift like Top of the Clouds is in such bad
repair that a *ski patroller* is nervous about riding it, that indicates
systemic problems with lift operations.

Regarding the parents of those children who were trapped, I think you
may be too harsh. What parent wouldn't be upset if their child or other
loved one was trapped in a gondola without rescue for hours as night
fell and temperatures went down to -10F and below? As Ted points out,
it gets cold there. At the very least, those people are in excruciating
discomfort.

I believe you said you were heading to Stowe? Hope you don't get
trapped on their gondola like I almost was once. It stopped for 30
minutes or more. Would it kill you? No. But you'd be mad, and you'd
have a right to be.

I was at Stowe on Saturday in the Midway lodge around 11:30 AM or so
eating lunch when the lights suddenly went out and did not come back
on. Service of customers in the cafeteria line came to a halt and I was
glad I had gotten my lunch early. After about ten minutes I thought to
look out the window and saw a motionless gondola car above us and
realized that the outage had gotten the gondola too. I went outside and
it looked like the lift over on the other peak was stopped too.

After about 30 minutes (guesstimate - I didnt have a watch), the diesel
backup on the gondola growled to life, to the accompaniment of cheers
and spouts of black smoke from the exhaust pipe. The cars slowly
started to move. At first, the word was that they were just going to
run it til it was empty and then shut down, but then I noticed that they
were still loading people on, so I figured what the hell, I'm here to
ski.

When I got to the top I could hear radio conversations from the patrol
room about getting the power back on. Somebody in the room said
something like "It's like this every day. They never learn, do they?".

tm wrote:
Bob Lee wrote:

Dave Stallard wrote:

Mary Malmros wrote:


According to the article I posted, it's one year old, so your old post
about lift troubles at Lake Louise doesn't really apply here.

I think it does. If a key lift like Top of the Clouds is in such bad
repair that a *ski patroller* is nervous about riding it, that indicates
systemic problems with lift operations.

Regarding the parents of those children who were trapped, I think you
may be too harsh. What parent wouldn't be upset if their child or other
loved one was trapped in a gondola without rescue for hours as night
fell and temperatures went down to -10F and below? As Ted points out,
it gets cold there. At the very least, those people are in excruciating
discomfort.

I believe you said you were heading to Stowe? Hope you don't get
trapped on their gondola like I almost was once. It stopped for 30
minutes or more. Would it kill you? No. But you'd be mad, and you'd
have a right to be.

Interfering with the rescue process and making it more difficult is not
a right, no matter how much right one has to be mad.


The rescue process is standing about for 5 hours?

You were there and witnessed this "standing about"? I mean, clearly,
someone did something besides "stand about" since they did an evac.