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Help a resort improve its terrain park



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 23rd 04, 04:27 AM
gwmccull
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Default Help a resort improve its terrain park

Hello, I'm a ski/snowboard instructor at a little resort in
California. Our terrain park is pretty lousy right now so a couple of
the instructors are putting together a proposal for management on how
to improve our park.

What do you think should be included in a good novice/intermediate
terrain park? Remember, this has to be a fairly mellow park for a
family-oriented resort. We currently have a few toys: a 16ft rail, a
kinked rail, a mail box, a fun box and a rainbow box.

We are also looking for some guidelines on how to design good jumps.
Does anyone out there know the specific formulas (or at least close)
that better resorts use when calculating the angle and length of
kicker and transition? We are looking for something along the lines
of: for every foot of table the kicker/transistion should X feet long
and for every degree of inclination on the kicker the transistion
should have a downslope of Y degrees.

So does anyone know of a good resource for this information (internet
or book) or does anyone work in a terrain park?

Also, does anyone have any idea how we can convince management to
devote more resources to this project? Our biggest problem is that
they won't hire anyone to go out and clean up the jumps and
transitions during the day.

Thanks
Garrett
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  #2  
Old February 23rd 04, 09:05 PM
Bob
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Default Help a resort improve its terrain park


"gwmccull" wrote in message
om...
Hello, I'm a ski/snowboard instructor at a little resort in
California. Our terrain park is pretty lousy right now so a

couple of
the instructors are putting together a proposal for management

on how
to improve our park.

What do you think should be included in a good

novice/intermediate
terrain park? Remember, this has to be a fairly mellow park for

a
family-oriented resort. We currently have a few toys: a 16ft

rail, a
kinked rail, a mail box, a fun box and a rainbow box.

We are also looking for some guidelines on how to design good

jumps.
Does anyone out there know the specific formulas (or at least

close)
that better resorts use when calculating the angle and length

of
kicker and transition?


As an older rider, I wonder why all the bigger jumps I've seen
have such a big cut behind them. This makes most of the jumps
require high speeds for safety. If you go too slow, you land
flat - hard. I'd appreciate a jump with the gap behind the jump
filled in so that you could safely take it at slower speeds, and
build up until you get the distance. If you go fast, the air time
would be identical. You'd just nevewr be very high off the
ground. Jumps of this type would give newer riders a chance to
safely learn how to do the big jumps.

Bob


  #3  
Old February 24th 04, 03:57 PM
Edmunde Lee
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Default Help a resort improve its terrain park

I'd like to see more aligator pits, and flaming hoops.


Seriously though, it be nice to have some jumps into powder.. a few
snowmakers strategically placed to get some big (man made) powder
would be interesting to see in a park.
  #4  
Old February 24th 04, 04:12 PM
Mike T
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Default Help a resort improve its terrain park

Seriously though, it be nice to have some jumps into powder.. a few
snowmakers strategically placed to get some big (man made) powder
would be interesting to see in a park.


I'm not so sure I'd want to see that. First of all, landing in deep
snow is harder than landing on groomed snow. It's a lot easier to auger
your tip into the snow and wind up doing a cartwheel. Second, it would
get tracked up after a dozen jumps, and landing in tracked up deep snow
is even harder!

Those who ride backcountry or even "in bounds backcountry" would be
fine. But the crowd that never leaves the park would kill themselves!

Mike T




  #5  
Old February 24th 04, 05:09 PM
Neil Gendzwill
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Default Help a resort improve its terrain park

Mike T wrote:

But the crowd that never leaves the park would kill themselves!


You say that like it's a bad thing.

Neil

  #6  
Old February 26th 04, 12:28 AM
gwmccull
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Default Help a resort improve its terrain park

Sorry, no snow making allowed at our resort :-( I do like the idea
about making tables and not gap jumps (posted earlier).

Garrett

(Edmunde Lee) wrote in message . com...
I'd like to see more aligator pits, and flaming hoops.


Seriously though, it be nice to have some jumps into powder.. a few
snowmakers strategically placed to get some big (man made) powder
would be interesting to see in a park.

  #7  
Old February 26th 04, 01:59 PM
Edmunde Lee
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Posts: n/a
Default Help a resort improve its terrain park

"Mike T" wrote in message ...
Seriously though, it be nice to have some jumps into powder.. a few
snowmakers strategically placed to get some big (man made) powder
would be interesting to see in a park.


I'm not so sure I'd want to see that. First of all, landing in deep
snow is harder than landing on groomed snow. It's a lot easier to auger
your tip into the snow and wind up doing a cartwheel. Second, it would
get tracked up after a dozen jumps, and landing in tracked up deep snow
is even harder!


Yeah, you're probably right... I suppose that big glorious mound of
powder would just turn into a big glorious mound of hard snow, sooner
than later..

Flaming hoops go a long way though...
  #8  
Old February 26th 04, 06:25 PM
Jason Watkins
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Default Help a resort improve its terrain park

I'm a total noob in the park, but I will give you my comments from a
noob's perspective:

I like tables that have a choice of kickers at different distances.
Leave a gap where someone can ride over with no kick... it'll be good
for people who have never jumped, who want to just check speed and
distance first before hitting, and for people following their budy
with a video camera.

I like tables that have a steep enough transition back down to the
slope, and that round off the spot where the table flat meets the
transition. Hitting the jump a little short and landing on this
sharply defined "shelf edge" cuz they didn't round into the transition
sucks. Landing on a transition that's to flat sucks too.

I hate tables where they try to compensate for a small table by giving
the kicker a sharp upturn at the end to really launch you. My friends
who are better in the park seem to agree, it makes it hard to launch
smooth into bigger spin tricks. The exception seems to be backflips.
But for that a quarterpipe is a better launch anyhow.

Timberline here has a great beginners rail... It's just a couple
inches off the snow. If I were going to learn rails, I'd want
something like that.

The rest of your park inventory sounds pretty good. Maybe add a curved
or s shaped rail or box?
  #9  
Old February 29th 04, 02:41 AM
Arvin Chang
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Posts: n/a
Default Help a resort improve its terrain park

(gwmccull) wrote in message . com...
Hello, I'm a ski/snowboard instructor at a little resort in
California. Our terrain park is pretty lousy right now so a couple of
the instructors are putting together a proposal for management on how
to improve our park.

What do you think should be included in a good novice/intermediate
terrain park? Remember, this has to be a fairly mellow park for a
family-oriented resort. We currently have a few toys: a 16ft rail, a
kinked rail, a mail box, a fun box and a rainbow box.

We are also looking for some guidelines on how to design good jumps.
Does anyone out there know the specific formulas (or at least close)
that better resorts use when calculating the angle and length of
kicker and transition? We are looking for something along the lines
of: for every foot of table the kicker/transistion should X feet long
and for every degree of inclination on the kicker the transistion
should have a downslope of Y degrees.

So does anyone know of a good resource for this information (internet
or book) or does anyone work in a terrain park?

Also, does anyone have any idea how we can convince management to
devote more resources to this project? Our biggest problem is that
they won't hire anyone to go out and clean up the jumps and
transitions during the day.

Thanks
Garrett


Well the main problem obviously is that you don't have a dedicated
"dig team" that maintains the park. That is rather important. They
don't need to clean up the jumps and transition during the day... they
just need to run a CAT over the runs to groomer them on Friday night
and then rake/shape the approaches a little on Saturday morning. That
should last most of the weekend.

Don't know of any resources for park building. But for a
beginner-intermediate park, you try to have jumps of several length -
short ones in particular the beginners can practice on... like a 5-10
foot "roller" with a lip on it, it's basically a little approach and
then a long landing so they can go at any speed they want. Tabletops
are nice, but most people fail to get enough speed to clear them. So
also mark jump with poles and either blue squares or black diamond to
rate difficult (just cut them out of plastic). Many resorts actually
split the two levels and make people sign a waiver and charge a
nominal fee to gain access to the expert park. This might be beyond
you means.

Still I'd have to say you should try convince your managers that if
you are a small resort, a park can be you main attraction for kids and
price conscious adults (especially if you charge like an extra $10 for
a "park" pass on top of regular ticket sales). Try going to the dig
teams of other resorts, or snowboard camps like High Cascade.
  #10  
Old March 1st 04, 10:09 PM
Sharkie
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Default Help a resort improve its terrain park

Neil Gendzwill wrote in message ...
Mike T wrote:

But the crowd that never leaves the park would kill themselves!


You say that like it's a bad thing.


I hope you're joking, right?
 




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