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** ski shop to avoid: Helm of Sun Valley in San Jose, CA **



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 14th 04, 12:12 AM
Vince Fuller
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Default ** ski shop to avoid: Helm of Sun Valley in San Jose, CA **

I've just had an absolutely terrible customer service experience with a ski
shop called Helm of Sun Valley in San Jose, California that I thought would
be worth sharing.

Back on April 7th, 2003, while on a ski trip in Whistler, British Columbia,
Canada, I purchased a pair of Volkl g3 Motion skis. I was quite happy with
the skis until March of this year, when I noticed that a 1-cm deep crack
had developed across the fiberglass upper surface of one ski. Clearly, this
should be a warranty issue, since a ski should not fail like this with less
than one year of use.

In an effort to have this problem resolved, I took the skis to Helm of Sun, a
shop with an apparently-good reputation, at least on my company's internal
ski list. The person at the shop took a look at the skis, said "yes, looks
like a clear warranty issue", and agreed to send them in to Volkl...for a
$37.89 ($35 plus tax) service charge to cover "shipping and handling"
(apparently, Volkl requires the customer to pay shipping for warranty
returns; not the most customer-friendly policy) plus re-mounting of the
bindings. While I wasn't thrilled by a charge to repair/replace a defective
product, I figured that Helm deserved some compensation for working with me
since I didn't buy the skis there. This was on March 18th, well within the
one-year warranty timeframe.

On April 8th, one day after the expiration of the warranty period on the skis
(and after 3 weeks of waiting), "Stu" at Helm of Sun Valley called to tell me
that Volkl (USA) had rejected the warranty claim because I did not purchase
the skis in the United States and had returned the skis to them. Note that I
clearly indicated to Helm of Sun Valley that I had originally purchased the
skis up in Whistler (and included a copy of the sales receipt), they should
have known where to send them for warranty service. As far as they were
concerned, I was SOL. Furthermore, when I asked if the $37.89 "service" charge
would be refunded to my credit card, I was told no, since that was to cover
their "shipping and handling expenses" which they incurred even though they
provided no remedy for my problem.

After an email exchange with Volkl (USA), I was informed that, in fact, the
skis should be covered by warranty but that they would have to be returned to
the Canadian distributor. When I picked up the skis from Helm of Sun Valley,
I asked to speak to the manager. Unfortunately, that turned out to be "Stu",
who again refused to refund their service charge or to take other corrective
action. He also refused to acknowledge any mistake by Helm of Sun Valley even
after I told him what Volkl (USA) had sent me in email.

Since this experience, I have been in touch with the shop in Whistler that
originally sold me the skis. They have been very helpful, telling me to ship
the skis up to them and they'll take care of the problem. I'm not sure yet
how Volkl will remedy the situation, since I haven't yet shipped the skis out.

Based on my experience, I would recommend that skiers in the Bay Area avoid
dealing with Helm of Sun Valley in San Jose; their store manager clearly does
not understand the concept of "customer service". Furthermore, if anyone has
contact information for the owner of the Helm of Sun Valley chain (or of this
store in particular if it is a franchise), I'd very much like to write him/her
a letter describing my experience; perhaps he/she can do something to improve
the customer service at this store before its reputation slides further.

Also based on my experience, I'd wholeheartedly recommend Whistler Village
Sports in Whistler, BC, Canada. The people there, and, in particular, Dave
Milley, have been very helpful and accomodating. I will continue to patronize
them on future visits to Whistler.

Vince Fuller, Palo Alto, CA
Ads
  #3  
Old April 14th 04, 04:19 PM
lal_truckee
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Posts: n/a
Default ** ski shop to avoid: Helm of Sun Valley in San Jose, CA **

Vince Fuller wrote:
I've just had an absolutely terrible customer service experience with a ski
shop called Helm of Sun Valley in San Jose, California that I thought would
be worth sharing.

Back on April 7th, 2003, while on a ski trip in Whistler, British Columbia,
Canada, I purchased a pair of Volkl g3 Motion skis. I was quite happy with
the skis until March of this year, when I noticed that a 1-cm deep crack
had developed across the fiberglass upper surface of one ski. Clearly, this
should be a warranty issue, since a ski should not fail like this with less
than one year of use.

In an effort to have this problem resolved, I took the skis to Helm of Sun, a
shop with an apparently-good reputation, at least on my company's internal
ski list.


Next time call the Volkl (or whichever company) distributer directly,
and get shipping instructions from them. They might even have picked up
shipping themselves - often happens (or sometimes they have a local (in
San Jose - not likely, but Tahoe maybe, and certainly you're still
skiing, aren't you?) and you could just hand them over and pick up a new
pair on the spot, while the local rep takes care of business.

Helm only deals with the US distributer, not Euro or Canuck distributers.

BTW, it wasn't clear to me what was wrong with the skis. A "one cm deep"
crack would have gone right through the skis and they would be broken,
so I discount that phrase; so what actually was wrong with the skis?
Cosmetics? Or structural? If structural why didn't they break, as would
be expected? If cosmetic, why are you bothering?
  #4  
Old April 16th 04, 01:02 AM
Vince Fuller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default ** ski shop to avoid: Helm of Sun Valley in San Jose, CA **

Next time call the Volkl (or whichever company) distributer directly,
and get shipping instructions from them. They might even have picked up
shipping themselves - often happens (or sometimes they have a local (in
San Jose - not likely, but Tahoe maybe, and certainly you're still
skiing, aren't you?) and you could just hand them over and pick up a new
pair on the spot, while the local rep takes care of business.


I'm actually going through the shop that originally sold me the skis, since
they have been helpful. Unfortunately, shipping the skis back to them via
UPS was $109, including packaging ($25 for box/peanuts and $84 for the actual
shipping charge). Ouch.

I have not had an opportunity to get back up to Lake Tahoe recently and may
not make it back up there this season; too many spring/summer activities
already underway. Friends who have been up there the past two weekends also
have reported that the conditions were rather poor, despite the fact that
there is still quite a bit of snow left. Our recent weather pattern seems to
be mild during the week and very warm on weekends... not the best for extending
a ski season.

Helm only deals with the US distributer, not Euro or Canuck distributers.


So I discovered. As an authorized Volkl dealer, Helm should have known about
the distributor/warrantee policy and not tried to send them back to the US
distributor at my expense. I informed them when I brought the skis there that
they were originally purchased in Canada.

BTW, it wasn't clear to me what was wrong with the skis. A "one cm deep"
crack would have gone right through the skis and they would be broken,
so I discount that phrase; so what actually was wrong with the skis?
Cosmetics? Or structural? If structural why didn't they break, as would
be expected? If cosmetic, why are you bothering?


The fiberglass upper surface of the ski is somewhere around 1 to 1.5 cm in
depth. Thus, the crack, which extends the full width of the ski, is from the
surface almost, but not quite, all the way to the base. This is most certainly
structural as the tech at Helm stated that they did not re-mount the bindings
after Volkl US sent the skis back because it would be unsafe to try to use the
skis in their current condition.

--Vince
  #5  
Old April 16th 04, 10:25 PM
Alex Heney
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Posts: n/a
Default ** ski shop to avoid: Helm of Sun Valley in San Jose, CA **

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:02:17 +0000 (UTC),
(Vince Fuller) wrote:

Next time call the Volkl (or whichever company) distributer directly,
and get shipping instructions from them. They might even have picked up
shipping themselves - often happens (or sometimes they have a local (in
San Jose - not likely, but Tahoe maybe, and certainly you're still
skiing, aren't you?) and you could just hand them over and pick up a new
pair on the spot, while the local rep takes care of business.


I'm actually going through the shop that originally sold me the skis, since
they have been helpful. Unfortunately, shipping the skis back to them via
UPS was $109, including packaging ($25 for box/peanuts and $84 for the actual
shipping charge). Ouch.

I have not had an opportunity to get back up to Lake Tahoe recently and may
not make it back up there this season; too many spring/summer activities
already underway. Friends who have been up there the past two weekends also
have reported that the conditions were rather poor, despite the fact that
there is still quite a bit of snow left. Our recent weather pattern seems to
be mild during the week and very warm on weekends... not the best for extending
a ski season.

Helm only deals with the US distributer, not Euro or Canuck distributers.


So I discovered. As an authorized Volkl dealer, Helm should have known about
the distributor/warrantee policy and not tried to send them back to the US
distributor at my expense. I informed them when I brought the skis there that
they were originally purchased in Canada.


This is the only thing they did wrong, IMO. Not enough to warrant your
diatribe. They had NO liability, since you did not buy the skis there,
and that is what they should have said up front.


BTW, it wasn't clear to me what was wrong with the skis. A "one cm deep"
crack would have gone right through the skis and they would be broken,
so I discount that phrase; so what actually was wrong with the skis?
Cosmetics? Or structural? If structural why didn't they break, as would
be expected? If cosmetic, why are you bothering?


The fiberglass upper surface of the ski is somewhere around 1 to 1.5 cm in
depth.


Rubbish. Maybe you mean mm, rather than cm.

I don't think many skis are thicker than 1.5cm IN TOTAL.


  #6  
Old April 16th 04, 11:23 PM
lal_truckee
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Posts: n/a
Default ** ski shop to avoid: Helm of Sun Valley in San Jose, CA **

Vince Fuller wrote:

I have not had an opportunity to get back up to Lake Tahoe recently and may
not make it back up there this season; too many spring/summer activities
already underway. Friends who have been up there the past two weekends also
have reported that the conditions were rather poor, despite the fact that
there is still quite a bit of snow left. Our recent weather pattern seems to
be mild during the week and very warm on weekends... not the best for extending
a ski season.


Hey. Your friends are full of **it. And warm weather is good skiing -
corn is ego snow. The conditions at Alpine Meadows (at least) are "very
good" (not "excellent" - excellent requires deep powder.) Spent today
doing the ridge hikes for beautiful corn runs in the untracked steep.
Gonna be doing the same for several more weeks.

BTW, it's snowing lightly out there, right now (in Truckee.) I don't
expect much accumulation, but what the hell - a prayer is in order!
Excuse me while I address the Gods.

Ullr! I beg of you! BLESS US WITH A DUMP! Then tomorrow come around the
locker at the end of the day and I'll give you some of my beer stash.
Bring Skadi and we'll make it a party.

CLIP
The fiberglass upper surface of the ski is somewhere around 1 to 1.5 cm in
depth. Thus, the crack, which extends the full width of the ski, is from the
surface almost, but not quite, all the way to the base. This is most certainly
structural as the tech at Helm stated that they did not re-mount the bindings
after Volkl US sent the skis back because it would be unsafe to try to use the
skis in their current condition.


Weird - Volkl's generally are built robust. I like mine several pairs,
and can't seem to damage them no matter what I try...
  #7  
Old April 17th 04, 12:17 AM
Vince Fuller
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Posts: n/a
Default ** ski shop to avoid: Helm of Sun Valley in San Jose, CA **

Hey. Your friends are full of **it. And warm weather is good skiing -
corn is ego snow. The conditions at Alpine Meadows (at least) are "very
good" (not "excellent" - excellent requires deep powder.) Spent today
doing the ridge hikes for beautiful corn runs in the untracked steep.
Gonna be doing the same for several more weeks.


To each his own. I've had occaisional good spring skiing days but have also
experienced plenty of lousy ones. I much prefer a 20-degree day with dry
Colorado or Utah snow, but that's just me. Given the distance from the Bay
Area as well as lots of springtime activities competing for time, it's just
not worth a 4+ hour drive and the price of a lift ticket for conditions that
may or may not be suitable. No doubt I'd feel differently if I lived closed
to the mountains.

BTW, it's snowing lightly out there, right now (in Truckee.) I don't
expect much accumulation, but what the hell - a prayer is in order!
Excuse me while I address the Gods.


It does look like this weekend promises the best conditions in a month, since
the forecast calls for much cooler weather than we've seen recently. It may
indeed be worth a day trip on Sunday (other commitments on Saturday).

Weird - Volkl's generally are built robust. I like mine several pairs,
and can't seem to damage them no matter what I try...


Hence my belief that my particular situation is the result of an isolated
manufacturing defect. I've been very happy with my g3 Motion skis and look
forward to having them replaced with a pair that don't suffer from this
problem.

--Vince
  #8  
Old April 17th 04, 12:18 AM
Vince Fuller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default ** ski shop to avoid: Helm of Sun Valley in San Jose, CA **

So I discovered. As an authorized Volkl dealer, Helm should have known about
the distributor/warrantee policy and not tried to send them back to the US
distributor at my expense. I informed them when I brought the skis there that
they were originally purchased in Canada.


This is the only thing they did wrong, IMO. Not enough to warrant your
diatribe. They had NO liability, since you did not buy the skis there,
and that is what they should have said up front.


Exactly enough to warrant my "diatribe" when they refused to acknowledge their
mistake and insisted on charging me $38 for making that mistake. That makes
them, IMHO, incompetent (they should have known Volkl's warranty policy if they
are an authorized representative of Vollk) and customer-hostile. As a vendor,
making a customer pay for your mistake is an absolute no-no. And arguing with
that customer when he asks for a refund of charges that were a result of that
mistake is even worse. Whatever happened to "the customer is always right"? I
will never do business with Helm of Sun Valley again and recommend that others
do likewise if they want to avoid an unpleasant customer service experience.

The fiberglass upper surface of the ski is somewhere around 1 to 1.5 cm in
depth.


Rubbish. Maybe you mean mm, rather than cm.

I don't think many skis are thicker than 1.5cm IN TOTAL.


No, I meant 1 cm as in 10mm or approximately 0.4 inch. That was my eyeball
estimate for how deep the crack is.

Since you have already stated your opinion that Volkl skis are good for nothing
more than firewood, I'm guessing that you don't own any and thus are probably
not qualified to measure the thickness of one. I can't do so at this time as
I've already shipped my defective skis off for replacement.

--Vince
  #9  
Old April 17th 04, 12:55 AM
Alex Heney
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Posts: n/a
Default ** ski shop to avoid: Helm of Sun Valley in San Jose, CA **

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 00:18:37 +0000 (UTC),
(Vince Fuller) wrote:

So I discovered. As an authorized Volkl dealer, Helm should have known about
the distributor/warrantee policy and not tried to send them back to the US
distributor at my expense. I informed them when I brought the skis there that
they were originally purchased in Canada.


This is the only thing they did wrong, IMO. Not enough to warrant your
diatribe. They had NO liability, since you did not buy the skis there,
and that is what they should have said up front.


Exactly enough to warrant my "diatribe" when they refused to acknowledge their
mistake and insisted on charging me $38 for making that mistake. That makes
them, IMHO, incompetent (they should have known Volkl's warranty policy if they
are an authorized representative of Vollk) and customer-hostile.


I'm not so sure of that. Unless somebody had previously attempted to
return skis bought in another country through them, why would they
have discovered this?

As a vendor,
making a customer pay for your mistake is an absolute no-no. And arguing with
that customer when he asks for a refund of charges that were a result of that
mistake is even worse.


Depends on the circumstances. What they *should* have done (IMO) is
told you up front that they did not know whether the warranty would be
honoured this way, and asked if you were willing to risk the cost.
Then there would have been no argument.

Whatever happened to "the customer is always right"?


That concept does not appear to be one that many shops have any more
:-(

I
will never do business with Helm of Sun Valley again and recommend that others
do likewise if they want to avoid an unpleasant customer service experience.


But I think that your experience is not a result the type of thing
that the vast majority of people doing business with the shop will be
doing.

I must admit, that personally, if I had goods with a warranty issue,
and could not get them back to the original shop (or another member of
the same chain), I would not dream of just taking them to any shop
that happens to sell those goods, I'd get in touch with the
manufacturer directly, and find out what *they* expected.

The fiberglass upper surface of the ski is somewhere around 1 to 1.5 cm in
depth.


Rubbish. Maybe you mean mm, rather than cm.

I don't think many skis are thicker than 1.5cm IN TOTAL.


No, I meant 1 cm as in 10mm or approximately 0.4 inch. That was my eyeball
estimate for how deep the crack is.


I doubt if there is a ski in the world that has an "upper surface"
around 1 to 1.5cm in depth, unless you are including the "devices"
that some skis have, such as the Atomic beta profile.

Since you have already stated your opinion that Volkl skis are good for nothing
more than firewood,


Mistaken identity. I have never skied on a pair of Volkls, so would
not presume to pass any sort of judgment on their quality. That was
somebody else.

I'm guessing that you don't own any and thus are probably
not qualified to measure the thickness of one.


You're right, of course. But I am sure that very few skis are much
more than 1.5cm in thickness (again, not counting any "profile" bits
on the top). And most of that thickness is taken up by core, not
"upper surface".


  #10  
Old April 17th 04, 01:10 AM
Alex Heney
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Posts: n/a
Default ** ski shop to avoid: Helm of Sun Valley in San Jose, CA **

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 17:58:27 -0600 (MDT), "The Skier formally known as
Prince" wrote:

Alex Heney wrote:

I would suggest that you reread the post.


Perhaps you should learn to read :-)

It seems to me he was
complaining about the fact that the shop misinformed him about
what could be done and charged him the fees without checking
into it.


Yep. Where did I say otherwise?

Nevermind about the customer inconvenience and waste of
time - I guess that doesn't count for much. I certainly wouldn't trust
any customer service pap that comes from that shop. By the way,
the warranty is with the mfr and this guy always knew that. He
wasn't holding the shop liable for the skis.


Well he did seem unhappy to start with that the shop were charging him
at all, even before finding out that the warranty would not be
honoured and they wouldn't give a refund.

And I'm not sure of the laws in the US (or Canada), but here in the
UK, it is always the vendors who have legal liability for defective
goods, so you *must* first contact them about any warranty claims.

If I were you I'd check that stupid attitude at the door. The
combination of being both arrogant and wrong really makes you
look like a douchebag.


It might have, if I had been either.

I certainly wasn't wrong in anything I said. I'm not quite sure what
sense you are using for arrogant here, but I certainly wasn't
intending to be so.

I think the OP had a bit of a cheek trying to take the skis "back" to
a store he didn't buy from, but the store should at least have made it
clear to him that the charge would not be refundable if for any reason
Volkl did not honour the warranty.

I would not expect a shop to know that the warranty would only be
honoured if returned through a shop in the country of purchase, unless
it has happened to them before, or the company has sent out
information to that effect to all shops who deal in their products.
 




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