Cap vs. non-Cap board construction ?

Ok, respond to this post if you have actually ridden cap contructed
boards (like RIDE) _AND_ non-cap/standard sidewall boards (like Burton)
and can compare them.

I've spent most of my time on cap boards and have nothing but positive
feedback and I'm sure there are plenty of riders who also love their
standard sidewall boards (is that the right term?).

But most of us only get a new board every 2-4 years and don't
have the opportunity to try multiple designs. So, let's cut through all
the marketing BS you read in the catalogs and hear in the shops and
please tell us the real deal.


Have you ridden both types of board construction?
What is the difference in performance?


Thanks!
-todd
(may be in the market for a new board)

Sandwich boards are typically heavier and more durable.

"toddjb" wrote in message
om...
Ok, respond to this post if you have actually ridden cap contructed
boards (like RIDE) _AND_ non-cap/standard sidewall boards (like Burton)
and can compare them.

I've spent most of my time on cap boards and have nothing but positive
feedback and I'm sure there are plenty of riders who also love their
standard sidewall boards (is that the right term?).

But most of us only get a new board every 2-4 years and don't
have the opportunity to try multiple designs. So, let's cut through all
the marketing BS you read in the catalogs and hear in the shops and
please tell us the real deal.


Have you ridden both types of board construction?
What is the difference in performance?


Thanks!
-todd
(may be in the market for a new board)

Have you ridden both types of board construction?
What is the difference in performance?

Yes, I've ridden several different boards of each construction. It's a
difficult question to answer because the cap-constructed boards I've
ridden have, in general, been not my favorite boards for other reasons
(e.g. flex pattern). Salomons have a hybrid construction, kind of like
a sandwich overlaid by a cap. But my favorite boards are all sandwich.
Another consideration - cap construction is more easily damaged during
tuning. If you slip with a file or edge tuner you can crack the cap
open.

Mike T

"og" wrote in message ...
Sandwich boards are typically heavier and more durable.


Thanks, og.
Ahhhh..."sandwich construction" that's the term I was looking for.

I could see this being true for hitting rails and such (more durable),
but for all mountain performance, vibration, edge grab, moguls...
....you'd want something lighter, etc. (I'm sure the durability comes
into play also for solid rock hits and such which have also nailed me on
early season off trail & tree riding)



Anyone ridden both?

but for all mountain performance, vibration, edge grab, moguls...
...you'd want something lighter, etc. (I'm sure the durability comes
into play also for solid rock hits and such which have also nailed me
on
early season off trail & tree riding)
Anyone ridden both?

Come to think of it, my cap-constructed boards, including the Salomon
(hybrid construction) have been noticeably easier to damage on-snow,
especially near the edge. I'm speaking of base damage. Lesser edge
impacts seem to cause more damage. OK, I think it's more than a
coincidence now that my favorite boards are all sandwich. BTW, I've
not noticed a difference in weight. Example - Custom vs. Supermodel,
both Burton, similar surface areas (Custom shorter, SM longer), Custom
is noticeably lighter and it was sandwich.

-Mike T

"Mike T" wrote in message . ..

-Mike T

....thanks for the details.

So, the original argument from cap manufacturers was that, "if its
right for skis, its right for boards." ...maybe since you only have
one edge in the snow at a time, on a board, the added stress adds up. ???
(on skis your weight and the force is distributed over two edges)

So, the original argument from cap manufacturers was that, "if its
right for skis, its right for boards." ...maybe since you only have
one edge in the snow at a time, on a board, the added stress adds up.
???
(on skis your weight and the force is distributed over two edges)

That argument wouldn't surprise me.

I'll say this: I've never seen an alpine board with cap construction.
Which makes me think that in hard turns, with lots of pressure on the
edge, it doesn't hold up or someone would be doing it!

Mike T

"Mike T" wrote in message . ..
So, the original argument from cap manufacturers was that, "if its
right for skis, its right for boards." ...maybe since you only have
one edge in the snow at a time, on a board, the added stress adds up.
???
(on skis your weight and the force is distributed over two edges)

That argument wouldn't surprise me.

I'll say this: I've never seen an alpine board with cap construction.
Which makes me think that in hard turns, with lots of pressure on the
edge, it doesn't hold up or someone would be doing it!

Mike T

maybe...I can see that argument going either way, though. cap contruction
is most affordable to manufacture in bulk and I think that's why you only
see it by large manufacturers. My impression would be that nobody sells
enough alpine boards to warrant the expense. (i look at it a lot like
plastic manufacturing if you know much about it...i can make a plastic
case really cheap if i'm making several thousand of them. if i need only
one, i might as well mill it out of stock metal because the plastic mold
will be very expensive.)

this is really what i'm trying to get to the bottom of...do the smaller
non-cap manufacturers say cap construction isn't cool just because they
can't do it? (this wouldn't fly for burton of course...for them, either
they are sticking with old school or caps really are weak.)

-t

this is really what i'm trying to get to the bottom of...do the smaller
non-cap manufacturers say cap construction isn't cool just because they
can't do it? (this wouldn't fly for burton of course...for them, either
they are sticking with old school or caps really are weak.)

-t

I can address this. Cap constructed boards have fewer parts and therefore
cost less to produce. Cap boards eliminate the sidewall (2 parts) and tip
and tail extensions (essentially the sidewall material that is in the tip
and tail). These four parts are actually some of the trickiest to produce
and keep in place when assembling the board. As a result they can be the
cause of several blemished boards. By eliminating those parts you eliminate
labor and mistakes. The cost of the materials is small, but adds up in a
large operation.

Cap construction can actually be done two different ways. Most of the
bigger companies spend the money to hard tool for the cap. This means they
have a custom tool machined that fits precisely over the top of the cap and
generates it's shape. This tooling is very costly as it takes many hours on
a cnc mill to produce the tool. The other technique used is called direct
bagging. Most snowboards are pressed in what's called a balloon press. A
balloon/air bag is inflated over the board creating very large forces (many
tons) to press all the components together. Direct bagging involves exactly
that. The bag/balloon is applied directly to the top of the board and
wraps over the cap. Although not quite a precise, this technique makes it
very easy and cost effective to produce a cap board.

If I was convinced that cap was as durable as sandwich construction, I
wouldn't hesitate one minute to switch. There are a lot of operations and
work involved with making snowboards. Being a custom board builder, the
sidewall and extensions are particularly frustrating to produce and add to
the board. Elliminating them would make my job so much easier.

The problem with cap construction is that it places a verticle section of
fiberglass and epoxy right over the steel edge. Epoxy is actually quite
brittle. The first time the edge strikes a rock the epoxy in the cap gets
cracked. Every crack in the epoxy provides a place for water to seep into
the board. They also reduce the stiffness of the board and generate stress
concentrations where bigger cracks are likely to occur. If you've ever
purchased a motocycle helmet (usually made of fiberglass and epoxy) you've
been told never to drop it on pavement as it will not be effective in a
crash if you do. This is for precisely the same reason. Small cracks in
the epoxy dramatically reduce the strength of the helmet.

Obviously there "can" be performance benefits, but a good designer can
create the same or better enhancements to a sandwich board. I say "can"
because there are many techniques for creating a cap board. Some are
performance enhancing and others are not.

Sean Martin
Donek Snowboards Inc.

http://www.donek.com/
phone:877-53-DONEK

Obviously there "can" be performance benefits, but a good designer can
create the same or better enhancements to a sandwich board. I say "can"
because there are many techniques for creating a cap board. Some are
performance enhancing and others are not.

snip!
As ever...useful, informed and informative. Thanks for taking the
time...trust your pre-season's hectic !

Cheers
S

"A man walks into a cake shop and says 'Is that a macaroon or a meringue?'
The assistant replies 'No, you're right. It's a macaroon.'"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(Chick Murray...'nuff said.)