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Touring gear - Grindelwald & Zermatt
I've just been bitten by the touring bug (OK, so I've done one day tour
but it was enough to convince me) so I'm interested in demo-ing some touring gear on my next couple of trips in Feb. I'll probably not buy until late in the season (if my luck holds I may be in Chamonix in April to do a bit of touring so I'd buy then), but I'd like to get a feel for the gear, in particular the boots, so I know what I'm after. Can anyone recommend shops in Grindelwald and/or Zermatt that either hire decent touring gear or will let me demo boots? While we're on the topic does anyone have any thoughts on touring boots? In particular, are the 4-clips boots with the interchangable soles any good (sorry, can't remember the brand) or are they a pricey gimmick? Although I am keen to do a lot of touring in the future the downhill performance of the boot will be very important to me, I'm happy to sacrifice a bit of uphill performance if the boots are good on the way down. Skis are less of an issue, I'm pretty sure I know what I want there (something fat and light, maybe Atomics or possibly the Black Diamond Verdicts which look very nice), but I'd be keen to hear any thoughts all the same. Ditto for bindings - I'm thinking Fritschi Freerides would suit but I'd be happy to hear other advice, esp. with regard to the Naxos. Cheers, Steve PS. To the rec.skiing.backcountry readers, please let me know if this is OT for the group, I've not posted here before but I assume it's relevant for Euro ski touring related topics? |
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#2
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On 17 Jan 2006 03:24:24 -0800, "SteveH"
wrote: While we're on the topic does anyone have any thoughts on touring boots? In particular, are the 4-clips boots with the interchangable soles any good (sorry, can't remember the brand) or are they a pricey gimmick? Although I am keen to do a lot of touring in the future the downhill performance of the boot will be very important to me, I'm happy to sacrifice a bit of uphill performance if the boots are good on the way down. I bought Denali TTs last season and have been very happy with them. They're the stiffest in the Scarpa range but are not as close-fitting as a race-level downhill boot, so there have been a couple of occasions when I might have had better control in difficult conditions (ice). This year my wife also bought touring boots for the first time, and tried several makes, eventually settling on the Garmont Adrenaline, which is the one to which you refer, with the interchangeable soles. As it happens, this has proved quite a useful feature, as she's not yet decided on a replacement ski, so she currently has the downhill sole (i.e. hard flat plastic) so she can use them with the normal downhill bindings. She, too, is very pleased with the boots. But the _only_ reason to change the soles is to allow normal bindings to be used; it will have no effect on the performance of the boot. In any event, they're as stiff as a dedicated downhill boot, so there's no problem there. -- Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club. |
#3
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Hi Ace,
Thanks for the info. This year my wife also bought touring boots for the first time, and tried several makes, eventually settling on the Garmont Adrenaline, which is the one to which you refer, with the interchangeable soles. As it happens, this has proved quite a useful feature, as she's not yet decided on a replacement ski, so she currently has the downhill sole (i.e. hard flat plastic) so she can use them with the normal downhill bindings. She, too, is very pleased with the boots. But the _only_ reason to change the soles is to allow normal bindings to be used; it will have no effect on the performance of the boot. In any event, they're as stiff as a dedicated downhill boot, so there's no problem there. Yep, they're the ones I meant. So, basically they are a DH boot with the option of fitting a touring sole? Doesn't seem a lot to gain there - surely you can use a normal DH boot in touring bindings anyway (I know you can't do the opposite). Doesn't the touring sole make a difference when hiking/climbing? |
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On 17 Jan 2006 03:46:08 -0800, "SteveH"
wrote: Hi Ace, Thanks for the info. This year my wife also bought touring boots for the first time, and tried several makes, eventually settling on the Garmont Adrenaline, which is the one to which you refer, with the interchangeable soles. As it happens, this has proved quite a useful feature, as she's not yet decided on a replacement ski, so she currently has the downhill sole (i.e. hard flat plastic) so she can use them with the normal downhill bindings. She, too, is very pleased with the boots. But the _only_ reason to change the soles is to allow normal bindings to be used; it will have no effect on the performance of the boot. In any event, they're as stiff as a dedicated downhill boot, so there's no problem there. Yep, they're the ones I meant. So, basically they are a DH boot with the option of fitting a touring sole? No, they're a stiff touring boot with the option of fitting a DH sole. Doesn't seem a lot to gain there They're much lighter, warmer and more comfortable than a normal DH boot, plus they do have a walk mode. - surely you can use a normal DH boot in touring bindings anyway Well yes, but shat's the point? (I know you can do the opposite). Not if you value your ankles. Some DH bindings have a moveable under-toe anti-friction plate, which _may_ work with touring boots, but the ones I had (Salomon) don't move, and the anti-friction device doesn't work very well in conjunction with grippy vibram soles. It took me the best part of six months before my ankle was fully recovered. Even if your bindings have got a moveable AFD, I found that getting them correctly adjusted at the toe was a problem, due to the compresion of the rubber soles. They'd seem tight, then after use there was some movement of the boot within the binding - not a good thing. So in short I wouldn't risk it again - I only sprained my ankle so I was able to ski, with some discomfort, for the rest of the season, but it could so easily have broken it. Doesn't the touring sole make a difference when hiking/climbing? Sure, that's why they have them. Once my wife gets new skis, with touring bindings, I don't think we'll ever be putting the DH sole back on. -- Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club. |
#5
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In message .com
"SteveH" wrote: I've just been bitten by the touring bug (OK, so I've done one day tour but it was enough to convince me) so I'm interested in demo-ing some touring gear on my next couple of trips in Feb. I'll probably not buy until late in the season (if my luck holds I may be in Chamonix in April to do a bit of touring so I'd buy then), but I'd like to get a feel for the gear, in particular the boots, so I know what I'm after. Can anyone recommend shops in Grindelwald and/or Zermatt that either hire decent touring gear or will let me demo boots? I've not much experience of shops for ski-touring equipment other than the many shops in the Chamonix valley. I bought my touring boots from Footworks in Chamonix, but they also have another outlet now in Argentiere. Obviously the most important thing about touring boots is that they are going to fit your feet properly, be comfortable and warm, for long days in remote places. When touring you can't easily nip into the nearest piste side restaurant to warm up cold feet. While we're on the topic does anyone have any thoughts on touring boots? Footworks after measuring my feet recommended me to buy Nordica boots rather than Scarpa boots. They didn't have any of the right size in stock, but got on the telephone and tracked some down locally and then after making me a coffee, went off and returned within 30 minutes with boots of the right size. I've used them for 2-3 weeks every year for the last 6 years and they've never given me any trouble. After 3 seasons the inner boot started to pack too much and I did upgrade to a Zip-Fit liner. In particular, are the 4-clips boots with the interchangable soles any good (sorry, can't remember the brand) or are they a pricey gimmick? Although I am keen to do a lot of touring in the future the downhill performance of the boot will be very important to me, I'm happy to sacrifice a bit of uphill performance if the boots are good on the way down. I've got two sets of skis and two sets of boots. One for touring and one for downhill. The trouble is that if you want one set of boots for all types of skiing you are going to have to make some kind of compromise. Skis are less of an issue, I'm pretty sure I know what I want there (something fat and light, maybe Atomics or possibly the Black Diamond Verdicts which look very nice), but I'd be keen to hear any thoughts all the same. I'm now on Atomic Beta Rides 9.22, but I started off with Dynastar 4x4 and after breaking both skis in a crash I had a spell on Fischer Free Rides. Of those three skis the Atomics are definitely my favourites, giving a good all round performance under many types of snow condition whilst being lighter than many other equivalent skis. Several of my friends are touring on Bandits either XX or B2s. Ditto for bindings - I'm thinking Fritschi Freerides would suit but I'd be happy to hear other advice, esp. with regard to the Naxos. I've used Fritschi Diamirs Mk I on the Dynastar and Fischers, and now have the Mk IIs on my Atomics (I broke the titanal bar on the Mk Is but the design has been improved and strengthened on the Mk II, III and Freeride versions). If you're going to use the boots and skis for a lot of downhill skiing as well as for straight touring, then the Freerides are probably the tougher binding. Cheers, Steve PS. To the rec.skiing.backcountry readers, please let me know if this is OT for the group, I've not posted here before but I assume it's relevant for Euro ski touring related topics? Mike http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/cccc/hauteroute/ -- o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark \__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing, " || _`\,_ |__\ \ | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and ` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user" |
#6
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Cheers for the clarification. Comments in line.
Ace wrote: - surely you can use a normal DH boot in touring bindings anyway Well yes, but shat's the point? My point was that if the Adrenaline is a stiff as a DH boot then there's not a lot of extra comfort to be gained by using an Adrenaline over my trusty Langes(!). As you say there are other benefits though, such as walk mode, lightness etc. (I know you can do the opposite). Not if you value your ankles. Some DH bindings have a moveable under-toe anti-friction plate, which _may_ work with touring boots, but the ones I had (Salomon) don't move, and the anti-friction device doesn't work very well in conjunction with grippy vibram soles. It took me the best part of six months before my ankle was fully recovered. Sorry, typo on my part - I meant to say you CAN'T do the opposite, as you say DH bindings + touring soles is a bad idea. DH boots + touring bindings is (AFAIK) fine. The Adrenaline sounds like a good solution for me from the way you describe it. I'd be a bit concerened that it wasn't one thing or the other - i.e. not really a touring boot and not really a DH boot but it seems like a good idea in it's own right to me. Has anyone used these for climbing? I don't mean full-on ice climbing, I mean are they OK if you need to put crampons on when to gets too steep for skis? I guess this is where a traditional touring boot could win out, but if they are useable for this then they've got to be worth a look. Cheers, Steve |
#7
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Cheers Mike,
Usefull stuff, thanks for the tip about Footworks. I'll certainly give them a try if/when I'm in Cham. Steve |
#8
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In message . com
"SteveH" wrote: Cheers for the clarification. Comments in line. Ace wrote: - surely you can use a normal DH boot in touring bindings anyway Well yes, but shat's the point? My point was that if the Adrenaline is a stiff as a DH boot then there's not a lot of extra comfort to be gained by using an Adrenaline over my trusty Langes(!). As you say there are other benefits though, such as walk mode, lightness etc. (I know you can do the opposite). Not if you value your ankles. Some DH bindings have a moveable under-toe anti-friction plate, which _may_ work with touring boots, but the ones I had (Salomon) don't move, and the anti-friction device doesn't work very well in conjunction with grippy vibram soles. It took me the best part of six months before my ankle was fully recovered. Sorry, typo on my part - I meant to say you CAN'T do the opposite, as you say DH bindings + touring soles is a bad idea. DH boots + touring bindings is (AFAIK) fine. The Adrenaline sounds like a good solution for me from the way you describe it. I'd be a bit concerened that it wasn't one thing or the other - i.e. not really a touring boot and not really a DH boot but it seems like a good idea in it's own right to me. Has anyone used these for climbing? I don't mean full-on ice climbing, I mean are they OK if you need to put crampons on when to gets too steep for skis? I guess this is where a traditional touring boot could win out, but if they are useable for this then they've got to be worth a look. Cheers, Steve It would be fairly easy to get crampons to fit and work on traditional DH boots however the disadvantage would be that without a walk mode you would have limited comfort and ability to walk and climb easily over variable terrain. When touring I now tend compromise and to carry a lightweight alloy pair of crampons which are fine for steep neve but not much use for steep ice or mixed ice and rock since they blunt and bend too easily. Mike http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/cccc/hauteroute/ -- o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark \__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing, " || _`\,_ |__\ \ | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and ` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user" |
#9
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Mike Clark wrote:
It would be fairly easy to get crampons to fit and work on traditional DH boots however the disadvantage would be that without a walk mode you would have limited comfort and ability to walk and climb easily over variable terrain. Also (I think) the case that where an AT boot has a decent Vibram (or similar) sole designed for use on Actual Ground, a typical downhill boot has a Comedy sole designed to stand on a pair of skis and not much else. Even if the cuff could be loosened I wouldn't fancy going anywhere much in them (I spent bits of last week tottering about on my nordic track boots which flex easily but have no proper sole to speak of). Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#10
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In message
Peter Clinch wrote: Mike Clark wrote: It would be fairly easy to get crampons to fit and work on traditional DH boots however the disadvantage would be that without a walk mode you would have limited comfort and ability to walk and climb easily over variable terrain. Also (I think) the case that where an AT boot has a decent Vibram (or similar) sole designed for use on Actual Ground, a typical downhill boot has a Comedy sole designed to stand on a pair of skis and not much else. Even if the cuff could be loosened I wouldn't fancy going anywhere much in them (I spent bits of last week tottering about on my nordic track boots which flex easily but have no proper sole to speak of). Pete. Yes the lack of a decent sole as well as a walk mode means that DH boots are of limited use for extended touring. However I've come across tourers who continue to use rear entry DH boots for touring, loosening the ankle clips for skinning (the claim is that they are very comfortable). I guess it depends on the type of touring you're planning to do. -- o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark \__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing, " || _`\,_ |__\ \ | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and ` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user" |
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