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why hardboots?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 10th 04, 05:37 AM
Dmitry
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Default why hardboots?

Given that I'm fairly happy with the way I can handle groomers on my Carbon Circle
(thinking about Channel Titanium for the next season, just need to find one on sale) ,
in my softboot/strap binding setup, what's in it for me in a hardboot setup?

Usually I ride "the whole mountain", maybe with some variations based on
weather/snow conditions. If there's lots of powder I'd go for steeps, chutes,
trees. If it's icy I'd be carving up groomed blue/black runs. If it's something
in the middle, I'd be doing all that plus steep moguls. I'm also always on a
lookout for a good natural kicker (Baker and Whistler/Blackomb are goldmines!).

I guess the extreme carving thing will entertain me for a day or two, but then
I'll get bored with it 'cause it's not challenging enough and there seems to be
not a lot of space to progress into.

Given all that, would you recommend trying a hardboot setup? If yes, do you
also recommend getting a racing stick, or I can just use my existing board?


Oh yea, another related question: why are step-in bindings so unpopular?
It seems like they have the advantage of easy mounting once off the lift, plus
I would imagine the whole setup is a bit lighter and also potentially more rigid
than the usual strap binding setup. So why is it that most good riders stick
with either strap bindings or hardboots?


PS: the last Sunday was the first day I've tried to ride in the rain. It was fun for the
first hour or so. Myself an me friend were just about the only ones riding the back
side on Stevens. Everything seemd like a slow-motion movie, as if we were
riding on wet sand or something like that. Very weird. Oh yea, Arcteryx Minuteman
Gore-Tex XCR pants and Salomon Somatic jacket are the **** - I was completely
dry after three hours out in the pouring rain, well worth the $320 I paid for both.
Gotta love the end-of-season sales..


Ads
  #2  
Old March 10th 04, 08:51 AM
tlf
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Default why hardboots?


"Dmitry" wrote in message
news:bQx3c.224701$uV3.944767@attbi_s51...

PS: the last Sunday was the first day I've tried to ride in the rain. It

was fun for the
first hour or so. Myself an me friend were just about the only ones riding

the back
side on Stevens. Everything seemd like a slow-motion movie, as if we were
riding on wet sand or something like that. Very weird. Oh yea, Arcteryx

Minuteman
Gore-Tex XCR pants and Salomon Somatic jacket are the **** - I was

completely
dry after three hours out in the pouring rain, well worth the $320 I paid

for both.
Gotta love the end-of-season sales..


Should have been there Saturday - while the crowds were worse the snow was
MUCH better!! I checked the report Sunday and it was 41 degrees and
raining - yuck....


  #3  
Old March 10th 04, 01:55 PM
Biff
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Default why hardboots?

Check out www.bomberonline.com, lots of hardboot info there, some
tutorials and introductions to the discipline, good active msg board.

As to the step-ins, I used clicker stepins for a while, but they
tended to clog on heavy snow so I gave up on them.
  #4  
Old March 10th 04, 03:13 PM
phil
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Default why hardboots?

[...] would you recommend trying a hardboot setup? If yes, do you
also recommend getting a racing stick, or I can just use my existing board?


Well if you're happy with what you can do, and not regularly getting
burned by guys on hard boots, then I'm not sure you'd really want to
change. It takes a while to get up to steam on alternative tech.

For me the progression to hard gear was driven by a need for greater
responsiveness.

I don't do the "extreme" carving thing either - it looks kind of weird
to me. Everything else you list is on mine too.


[...] another related question: why are step-in bindings so unpopular?


I can't answer for the side-slipping crowd. They're not unpopular with
hard booters (Intec) or powder hounds (mostly clickers). For me
rigidity of the Intec system is why I use it.


Riding in the rain: I thought you had to be English to enjoy that.

Phil
  #5  
Old March 10th 04, 03:14 PM
Chet Hayes
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Default why hardboots?

Oh yea, another related question: why are step-in bindings so unpopular?
It seems like they have the advantage of easy mounting once off the lift, plus
I would imagine the whole setup is a bit lighter and also potentially more rigid
than the usual strap binding setup. So why is it that most good riders stick
with either strap bindings or hardboots?





I used Clicker step-ins when I was learning. I don't believe step-in
the boot/binding combo is any lighter than a strap type equivalent.
For example, I think there is more variability in weight between boot
models and manufacturers than there necessarily is between the two
fundamental types. I found the step-ins very convenient while
learning.

Having switched to strap-ins, I would say that the strap in approach
does a better job of holding your foot firmly to the board. Part of
this is likely the addition of the toe strap, which helps tighten the
boot/foot down in the front. The step-in boots in general are
somewhat more difficult to walk in as well.

Another problem is snow getting in the locking mechanism, sometimes
making it difficult to get them locked after getting off the lift.
The degree of this problem varies among the different types of
step-ins. And that raises another big problem. While step-ins are
only a small segment of the market, even worse, there are several
different incompatible systems, further fragmenting the market and
making it unattractive for shops to stock. Most shops are now
carrying less step-ins than a few years ago, and its hard to find much
selection if your looking for eqpt. The only place they are popular
is with rental eqpt.
  #6  
Old March 10th 04, 03:18 PM
Mike T
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Default why hardboots?

I guess the extreme carving thing will entertain me for a day or two, but
then
I'll get bored with it 'cause it's not challenging enough and there seems

to be
not a lot of space to progress into.


I'll have to agree with Baka Dasai... there is plenty of space to progress
in "extreme carving". I'm putting that in quotes because there is a
specific style that's been labeled "extreme carving", but there are plenty
of other styles that are equally Extreme.

I find technical carving to me equally challenging as other types of riding,
perhaps more so. Don't be fooled by the fact that most of the people you
see in hard boots look like they're really good at it!

a) Most of the people who do it are extremely dedicated and have good
number of days under their belts

b) Watch closer. While it's not difficult to carve and lay trenches on a
hard boot setup, developing style takes time, just like it does in the park
or pipe.

I originally tried hard boots in hopes that I'd learn how to ride in them
well enough so that it would give something back to my soft boot riding.
Now I spend 80-90% of my time in hard boots. The only time I ride in soft
boots is in ridiculously deep powder, and when it's low visibility, or right
around freezing and combination snowing / raining. (I have a toddler, so I
don't get to pick and choose my riding days the way I used to... and riding
in crappy conditions beats not riding at all!)

-Mike T


  #7  
Old March 10th 04, 04:51 PM
Dmitry
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Default why hardboots?


"Baka Dasai" wrote

The compromise you make in hard boots is the inability to tweak your
airs in freestyle manoeuvres, and a somewhat excessive precision in the
pipe, in landing jumps, and in powder.


Can you elaborate a bit on why soft boots are prefered for powder?

For icy conditions, hard boots will be vastly superior. For everything
else you do they'll be different, perhaps better and perhaps worse. My
limited experience with riding non-groomers in hard boots tells me that
jumping, moguls, and open powder fields should be just as good (maybe
better) as in soft boots, while chutes and trees may be a bit harder
than in soft boots.


Sounds good. Are you presuming here that a hardboot setup also
entails a narrow BX/GS board? I have yet to see somebody riding
down some seriously steep stuff (e.g. The Cirque on Whistler) in
hardboots (well, actually in four days there I haven't seen a
single snowboarder there other than the ones who came, looked and
turned back).

As for there being no space to progress into, that sounds a little
presumptuous. I can carve my setup pretty well, but there are a hell of
a lot of slopes/snow conditions that give me trouble.


In my mind the "progress" here would be actually getting into some
form of racing, which is a whole 'nother level of commitment compared
to just fooling around on the hill.

BTW, if somebody can share what it takes to participate in the
boardercross (where/entry fees/schedule/skills), I'd be quite grateful.

Alpine boards are a serious rush though.


Are they a serious disadvantage in moguls/steeps?


  #8  
Old March 10th 04, 05:02 PM
Dmitry
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Default why hardboots?


"phil" wrote

[...] would you recommend trying a hardboot setup? If yes, do you
also recommend getting a racing stick, or I can just use my existing board?


Well if you're happy with what you can do, and not regularly getting
burned by guys on hard boots, then I'm not sure you'd really want to
change. It takes a while to get up to steam on alternative tech.


What do you mean by "getting burned"? Frankly, I rarely see snowboarders
in places where I suck and could learn a lot (moguls and steeps), other than
the kids scraping it down on their asses sometimes. Even Baker doesn't
really yield a lot of good role models to look up to - everybody is either
in the park or on easier runs looking for jumps.

For me the progression to hard gear was driven by a need for greater
responsiveness.


This makes sense, I'd like some more edge control too.

Riding in the rain: I thought you had to be English to enjoy that.


Well, because good gear takes care of the "getting soaked" element,
it was fun because it was quite a bit different and usual. I wouldn't want
to do it again though.


  #9  
Old March 10th 04, 05:22 PM
WeatherCam
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Default why hardboots?


"Dmitry" wrote in message
news:bQx3c.224701$uV3.944767@attbi_s51...
Given that I'm fairly happy with the way I can handle groomers on my

Carbon Circle
(thinking about Channel Titanium for the next season, just need to find

one on sale) ,
in my softboot/strap binding setup, what's in it for me in a hardboot

setup?


Oh well watch this space - we've gone the midway between Snowboard Hard
boots and Softboots by purchasing Ski Alpine Touring boots which have
various settings - walking / riding and in between - advantages seem to be
a MUCH lighter boot, a boot that is better designed for climbing and walking
long distances, plus boots than can adapt to ski touring binding for our
approach skis - mate has bought the Scarpa boots and I'm going for the
Dynafit version http://www.dynafit.at/en/products.php?produkt=17

Let you know how we get on - could be a whole new style - though various
contributors on bomber online have been using these!!

REgards

WC


  #10  
Old March 11th 04, 12:17 AM
Neil Gendzwill
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Default why hardboots?

Dmitry wrote:

What do you mean by "getting burned"? Frankly, I rarely see snowboarders
in places where I suck and could learn a lot (moguls and steeps), other than
the kids scraping it down on their asses sometimes.


You'd see me there, if we were riding the same hill, and I ride hard
boots. My hard boots are relatively soft ones (Raichle 224, not sure
what the current equivalent is, used to know). I also use an
all-mountain deck, which is wider at 21.5 cm than the race set-ups a lot
of guys use. It's also quite a bit softer. I used to use an Asym Air
with plates, which is an older stiff Burton free-ride board with a 25 cm
waist. I haven't tried a soft setup in 10 years, so they may have
improved - but people keep telling me they get foot pain and they're
unresponsive, so maybe they haven't improved enough. One bonus with
hard boots - step-ins that work really well.

My personal belief is that for the sort of riding you like to do, hard
boots would work very well so long as you have a fairly wide deck and
keep the angles lower (under 50). I think trying to wrangle moguls or
steeps with 60 degree angles is probably not that good an idea, but I'm
sure there's somebody out there killing it in those conditions.

Neil

 




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