Tricks to staying warm at -10F ?

Traffic seems rather slow here lately, so I'll post a question:

What are some of the tricks you use to keep skiing when the temps are below
zero F?

I'll start:
- To keep hands warm, ski without poles the first 5 minutes ... promotes blood
flow to the fingers AND use a light grip, use the strap for providing force.

- Old cycling shorts with a worn chamois work well on keeping warm 'down
below'.

Others?

John Wilke
Milwaukee
( -6F this morning and I'm LOVING IT !! )

(J999w) wrote in message ...
What are some of the tricks you use to keep skiing when the temps
are below
zero F?

-Windstopper. Excelletn stuff.
-Also, if you can stand it, it's good to warm up for a while then
strip off a wind layer, like a windmitten over the gloves, or some
wind pants over the normal pants. It doesn't take long to warm up,
just a 5-10 minutes.
-Don't stop. If you stop and talk for 5 min, your hands (and maybe)
feet will get cold and it takes about 30 min to warm up again. This is
what I worry about if I break any equipment 20 km from the car. Even
if you stop in a warm building, it will take longer to warm up the
second time than the first time.
-On a long ski, I usually bring the above mentioned windmittens (PI
brand) and maybe a small windbreaker just in case something goes
wrong.
-Drink early, because that bottle will be solid in no time. (Tuck it
un-side-down under the jacket if possible.
-Gators are good.
-It's worth bringing along goggles if it's really windy
-The woods (get there and stay there)
-There's always the wind trainer or the 60 flights of stairs workout

Jay Wenner

"J999w" wrote in message
...
Traffic seems rather slow here lately, so I'll post a question:

What are some of the tricks you use to keep skiing when the temps are
below
zero F?

I'll start:
- To keep hands warm, ski without poles the first 5 minutes ... promotes
blood
flow to the fingers AND use a light grip, use the strap for providing
force.

- Old cycling shorts with a worn chamois work well on keeping warm 'down
below'.

Others?

I ski at -10 F quite often. -10 is easy. My cut off is around -20 F, not
because it's hard to keep warm (see first rule), but because the skis get to
be so slow, it starts being too much of a chore. It is almost always calm,
so except for going down hill, there's no real wind chill factor. This is
at training pace (few, if any short stops) for between 45 min and 2 hours.
I'm not really much of a racer, and when I do, I wear the same clothes - so
I can't tell you how this would translate to you lycra wearers. But I think
the same principles would apply.

First rule: There's really no "tricks" that I know other than to wear what
you need to wear to stay warm.

Head: thin polypro or lycra balaclava covered by normal XC ski hat. If my
nose gets cold, I can pull the balaclava up over it. I go this route rather
than using XC ear muffs because it helps keep my neck and the back of my
head warm. I think a neck warmer of some sort is worthwhile at colder
temps, even if you don't wear the balaclava.

Editorial comment: I really do adhere to the old adage, a warm head helps
keep your hands and feet warm. I frequently notice I have more trouble
keeping my hands and feet warm if I'm a little chilly overall - and keeping
my head nice and warm helps prevent the overall chilliness even if I'm short
a thin layer on the torso.

Torso: Two layers of polypro (thin and medium) covered by unlined wind
shell. Make sure you can zip the wind shell up your neck if necessary. Add
light vest under or over shell if necessary (depending on how hard you're
going, etc.). The thicker polypro is always a zip up "mock turtle neck".

Editorial comment: over the years, I've gone through a lot of polypro tops.
I probably have 10 different polypro tops that can be roughly put into three
weight categories. I don't look for any particular variety (e.g. capilene)
or name-brand, that may or may not be worth the premium pricing. The only
critical factor, other than decent quality, is the length. I'm not a tall
guy but I just HATE poly pro tops that aren't long enough to *stay* tucked
in. That's the main feature I look for. I just get rid of them if they
turn out to be too short, because then they're worthless.

Legs: either: fairly heavyweight tights or polypro long johns covered by
Sporthill "XC" wind pants - or - the same tights with polypro long underwear
or thinner tights underneath. These are roughly equivalent in warmth,
although I tend to go with the wind-pants variation most often.

All iterations ***** with wind briefs ******. Not as critical, but
definitely more comfortable, with wind pants. Critical if you're not
wearing wind pants. The cycling shorts thing is a good idea, I've never
thought of it.

Hands: at below 0 F I use windstopper lobster mitts or *really* warm (e.g.
nylon shell - not leather - alpine ski) gloves. I have very cold hands, in
general, and definitely wear warmer stuff on my hands than most of the
people I ski with. Nothing slows you down more than getting numb fingers
and having to either stop to warm them up, or ball them up inside your
gloves and therefore mess up poling efficiency. I've learned to live with
it and *always* err on the side of too warm for my hands. (I'm the guy
wearing light gloves at 55 deg. F). I can pretty easily tolerate being a
little underdressed and chilly for an hour - it's irritating, but no big
deal. But if my hands (or toes) start hurting or getting numb, you just
flat can't keep skiing.

Feet: my boots are fitted using Smartwool socks on the light end of what
they offer. At below 0 F I always stride rather than skate and don't
really have trouble keeping my feet warm because striding causes a lot of
action in the feet and toes. I'm sure my feet would get cold quickly if I
was skating at below 0 F. I do have a fairly heavy pair of Alpina pile
overboots which I wear if necessary, but that's rare for me as long as I
keep moving. We'll see with my new Carbon striding boots. There are a
variety of overboots. A lot of people use the much lighter weight Salomon
or neoprene "boot glove" type. There's no reason to have cold feet because
overboots are fairly cheap and don't affect your skiing at all, imho. In
the old days, I always wore an oversized rag wool sock over my boots and
that worked very well also (and had a certain hard core panache!).

Did I mention WIND BRIEFS? When it's cold, don't leave home without them,
even if you're wearing wind pants. You'll definitely want to have them on
those long downhills. Without wind briefs, a good tuck with the elbows in
protecting the groin can help, but not perfectly. In a pinch, if you
forget, you can create a reasonable facsimile using duct tape and regular
briefs. People have also been known to stuff a hat, mitt or glove down
there on the trail. I don't know what the hell you boxer wearers would do.

OK, I always end up sweaty and wet no matter how cold it is. But I'm also
the type of guy who really feels better working out when I'm really warmed
up. My whole system, heart, lungs, muscles feels much better once the sweat
breaks. I always carry a dry shirt in my bag or car and always take off the
wet tops and put on something dry no matter how short the drive home.

Grissy

If you are using Yoko 232 system, buy large gloves or mittens and
make a slit between thumb and index fingers for grip insert to
come through.

Have a hairdryer in your gear bag. When you come inside after couple of hours
of skiing, you'll appreciate it.


Question: There is a new glove for snowboarders on the market -
it has a "breath in" valve to thaw of fingers. When are ski
glove makers to follow?

Interesting ideas, keep 'em comming.

I forwarded some of it to a friend of mine and he had some unique ideas on
what to drink. Tell me what'cha all think:



Water bottle?? Just put a little brandy in there! Same theory as auto anti
freeze. Also double functions as antiseptic in case of wounding on the trail
and attitude adjustment in case of bad attitude. Really hard core guys, (like
winter fly fisher"men") just dispense with their water bottle completely and
just pack a flask with 100% of their favorite spirits. My fave at the moment is
Korbel Brandy. I'm sure your Russian/Finnish nordic types go more for the
Vodkas, so pick your poison. That vodka is made from potato mash, so probably
lots of complex carbs in there too(!?) Of course, it probably doesn't really
work too well as fluid replacement once it is ingested, but if you ingest
enough of it you won't care anyway.

Best technique I ever came across regarding staying warm out in the cold
though, is to get warmed up BEFORE you go out in the cold. Probably really
tough to do logistically on some ski trails but I think that it really works.
US Posties started doing this big time before cold stage races and it has
really caught on in cycling. (actually big controversy in the tour this year
with Ullrich warming up inside before that cold rainy TT stage). Wonder if you
have heard any research on this? Get everything opened up and up to temp before
you hit the cold. I would think there would be less energy depleted trying to
get warmed up while your body is trying to adapt to a colder ambient also. Just
a theory, but my personal experience is that I'm a lot happier in the cold if
all the caps are already dialated and flush before they have to be forced open
in the cold. Interested to hear what someone with more physio education than me
thinks about this.

.... and then there are some days when you just shouldn't go out!
-pd

(J999w) wrote in message news:20040106170055.15860.00001515@mb-

Best technique I ever came across
regarding staying warm out in the cold
though, is to get warmed up BEFORE you
go out in the cold. Probably really
tough to do logistically on some ski
trails but I think that it really works.

I think that can work well. A friend advised me to do it before the
Keskinada last year -- we jogged lightly and did arm and leg swings
indoors in the school before the start and it seemed to work.

US Posties started doing this big time
before cold stage races and it has
really caught on in cycling.

This has been done for some time in cycling -- at least where I live
some people warm up on a windtrainer or roller before cold early
season races.

One danger with this is getting your clothes wet with sweat though.
You've got to take care with that, or have a dry change available
before you head out.

(actually big controversy in the tour
this year
with Ullrich warming up inside before
that cold rainy TT stage).

I don't understand how that could be controversial (in any case he
lost in that TT). He warmed up inside an airconditioned room for the
very hot TT (which he won)rather than baking on a trainer outside.

I don't have much experience in very cold weather skiing, but know
balaclavas and neck gaiters are very useful. In very cold cycling
(for training, where I wear a lot), one thing that is useful for me is
to not put on all my warm clothes indoors until the last instant --
I'll end up sweating too much inside (my apartment is very warm in
winter) and in the elevator. So I put on the last bit just as I head
out the door, or even in the foyer of my building.

Also one other idea. In college a girl on my ski team often warmed up
with a hot bath before practices. And a friend of mine uses hot
showers in the morning before bike and ski races and says it helps
her.

JT

Yes, my late lamented friend Bruno (who taught me some skiing) and
I used to joke, back in the 70's, about how many miles per gallon
we'd get out of that wineskin "fuel tank". Ice wine, I suppose.

Best, Peter

Try Dermatone - this stuff works way better:

http://www.dermatone.com/

As a very active local Ottawa Canuck racer - No frostbite for me in '03
Keski 50K Classic (mid 3 hrs) and 25K Free whilst using it.

Also medical tape (prefer transparent) or bandages really do the trick to
ward off bite
on the nose and cheek bones.

Give 'em a try.

"B Paton" wrote in message
. ..
Slather, and don't be stingy, Vaseline (or your favourite petroleum jelly)
on your face. When it gets well below -20c (as in last year's Keskinada)
some folks have some weird tricks for shielding their noses, although I
have
so far just stuck with Vaseline. It worked well for me one winter (way
back)
when I worked as a bicycle courier in Ottawa . Also I managed last year's
Keski with only minimal frost bite (unlike many).

Blake in Haliburton (who had to ride to work today 'cuz of lack of snow)

Griss covered it quite well. I've only skied in -10 through -20 four times
(wind chills -20 to -35) and am still perfecting my rig, but here's my
slant:

Bottom line: keep moving, you stop you get cold REAL fast
Waist down:
Polypro/silk briefs
Polypro "dive skin" - they used to sell them at Performance Diver, but
bought out by Diver's Direct. Awesome jumpsuit, nice layer of polypro for a
base.
Polypro running tights
one pair of long wool socks--they come over my knees (might look a bit
dorky, but the fashion sheriff isn't out in this weather anyway...)
Thinsulate lined XC boots
Comments: everything stays toasty, though the polypro only part of my
thighs gets a bit cool in the wind. Have not found a good shell that gives
me free movement, so I apply the bottom line rule and have survived hour ski
sessions just fine (I ski at a moderate to hard pace).

Torso/hands:
Thinsulate lined, nylon shell ski gloves. They get VERY wet on the inside,
but still keep me fingers warm. On warmer days (like today, it's 21 out
there), I'll just wear wool liners and they are the best.
Two polypro shirts. The cheap military issue ones work fine. Wick, wick,
wick. I'll wear only one when the weather is warmer.
Lined/unlined nylon shell. The nylon shell is mandatory for the wind, still
working out the lining thing. The shell will be SOAKED when you get back to
the car/home. The inside will be frozen, but never had a problem getting
the zipper down. A Gore-Tex shell should be perfect, but the only ones I
have seem a bit restrictive--and in woodland cammo. Still, I might give it
a shot sometime.

Head:
Man, I've done more experimenting here than anywhere, but here's the latest:
I wear prescription glasses, and my eyes water with the slightest breeze
when it's cold, so ski goggles are a must. Use Smith goggles and they don't
fog up, but my glasses do, so I need to defog them. The defog cloth that
comes with the goggles works the best, everything else I've tried wears out
after about 1/2 an hour (the defog cloth thing just PARTIALLY wears off).
A Polartech baklava I got from Land's End about seven years ago. It covers
my neck well. I pull the mouth hole up to just about half way between my
mouth and my nose. The goggles protect most of my nose and I have to have
the fabric over my mouth, as the air is just too damn cold to suck through
my nasal passages/lungs without having the air "deadened" by the fabric.
I've tried, -10 degree air is just too cold for me to suck straight in.
Comments: I'll have ice all over the outside of the baklava from sweating
and will immediately have to switch hats (with a wool one) after getting in
the car. The gloves come off also and are replaced.

More comments: drive home, peel off all the wet clothes and find a Jacuzzi!
I ski for exercise, so have tailored my gear for that. I'd wear the same
thing if I were running in this weather (however, with ice and snow
everywhere, that's not an option).

I'm out.

--
Raider Rick
"Just ski, baby"

"J999w" wrote in message
...
Traffic seems rather slow here lately, so I'll post a question:

What are some of the tricks you use to keep skiing when the temps are
below
zero F?

I'll start:
- To keep hands warm, ski without poles the first 5 minutes ... promotes
blood
flow to the fingers AND use a light grip, use the strap for providing
force.

- Old cycling shorts with a worn chamois work well on keeping warm 'down
below'.

Others?

John Wilke
Milwaukee
( -6F this morning and I'm LOVING IT !! )

At these temps, I like my outer layer to be soft. A nylon shell sounds like
it's going to crack in two at these temps, especially after a long downhill.
:^]

jw
milwaukee