START kick scotch tape???

Uh-oh?! I just purchased some bottles of Cerax at our store because they
got marked down (last years stock). Never heard about this clogging
problem. I was hoping that this was the secret weapon all those German
biathalon athletes had last year since they almost always seem to have fast
skis. Does this mean all the Canadian racers who were raving about Cerax on
their website have now dumped the stuff? Should I go back to the customer
service counter and get a refund?

"Rob Bradlee" wrote in message
o.com...

2) Is this something that would have been stifled by the wax
companies
since it would put them out of business or change the nature of kick
waxing?

That's why the Toko Tech Team exists - to hunt down and eliminate brave
inventors who threaten our hold on the worldwide economy. Actually, if
it's a good idea then the wax companies will probably develop their own
"wax tape". That's what Start did, no? The wax companies are in the
business of selling products to help your skiing. Whatever technology
comes along they will follow.

I can see some serious problems with it though - how do you get it
sticky enough to stick to a cold ski, but still be able to get it off?
and would its surface have the right combo of kick and glide? How
would you vary the thickness?

Perhaps other wax companies have tried the tape concept and not been
able to make it work. Look at liquid waxes. Cerax sounded great, but
it turned out to have too strong a solvent in it and clogged the base
necessitating stone-grinding after a few applications. It's very
tricky to make a good liquid wax. (I think Toko has succeeded with
Helx, but that's another story).

Rob Bradlee
Toko Tech Team

Here is the link to Start site with some instructions

http://www.startex.fi/griptape_pitov...&laji=xcountry


I saw the name in the pull-down menu some time ago and thought
they are talking about adhesive tape to mask the kick area and
did not even checked out.
What is next, roll-on wax?

Gary Jacobson wrote:

Wasn't this done in an WC race, maybe in 1983, when some skier classic
skied the tough first half of the course, and then tore off tape overwhich
hard wax was applied, and then he skated to victory?
Nordic urban legend?

Not at all a legend, another poster already mentioned that Wassberg was
the guy who did it:

The course was 'A'-shaped, with all the ascent in the first half and
nearly nothing in the second, so he skied with grip wax to the top,
flipped one ski at the time upside down and then personally (this was
important, since getting waxing help during a competiton is an automatic
DSQ reason) removed the tape strips, revealing the glider underneath.

He lost significantly on the uphill (the tape must have caused some
reduction in glide as well, right?), but just managed to recover all of
it, including the 10 sek (afair) used on tape/wax removal, before the
finish.

Terje
--
-
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"

(revyakin) wrote in message om...

I spoke to a service man of the Russian National Team during my visit
to Moscow a week ago. He just came back from a START waxing clinique
in Finland. He told me that START came up with a new "grip tape"
that will make kick wax and klisters obsolete. He says the tape works
between -20 and +5 and stays for at least ~250 km. Applying the tape
is like applying scotch tape. Sounds unbelievable. If it's true I may
start classic skiing again. Does anyone know anything abut this?

Only that it is hailed as "Definitely the Next Big Thing"
and "the Saviour of Skiing":-)

The story is that it actually works as claimed, at least
to the full satisfaction of most recreational skiers.
Unfortunately I have no idea how much of that is hype
(like the glide wipe IMHO largely was), as it´s pretty
impossible to do any testing on a snowless ground in a
5C temperature - I haven´t even been to a store to find
out the price:-(

http://www.startex.fi

They're not claiming that this tape _grips_ better than klister or wax.
Just that it's more _convenient_ for recreational skiers -- at least that's
what I'm understanding from reading the English-language version of that web
page.

Which makes sense, since the magic of grip is mostly in the glue. The idea
of making klister cleanup easier by putting it on over a layer of tape was
described on this newsgroup at least two years ago. Sounds like Start has
now taken it to a higher level.

I could only get to the English-language version of that page by first going
to the home page at http://www.startskiwax.com/ or http://www.startex.fi
and selecting the language there.

Ken

--- shreddir wrote:
Uh-oh?! I just purchased some bottles of Cerax at our store
because they
got marked down (last years stock). Never heard about this clogging
problem. I was hoping that this was the secret weapon all those

their website have now dumped the stuff? Should I go back to the
customer
service counter and get a refund?

I sure would.
Rob

I found a few things on the web that seem to confirm what you've
heard. Check out www.biathlon.asn.au This is a long document, but
there's an extended reference to Start Grip Tape that does make it
sound like a very cool idea, though there's no account of how it
actually works. I imagine it's abrasive on the business side, and
sticky on the other. It will have to be relatively easy to remove, and
yet stay in place while skiing, which seems like a non-trivial
problem. Has anyone tried it? Would it be suitable for racing in place
of klister?

Onno Oerlemans

(revyakin) wrote in message om...
I spoke to a service man of the Russian National Team during my visit
to Moscow a week ago. He just came back from a START waxing clinique
in Finland. He told me that START came up with a new "grip tape"
that will make kick wax and klisters obsolete. He says the tape works
between
-20 and +5 and stays for at least ~250 km. Applying the tape is like
applying scotch tape. Sounds unbelievable. If it's true I may start
classic skiing again. Does anyone know anything abut this?

Andrey Revyakin.

(Rob Bradlee) wrote in message oo.com...
2) Is this something that would have been stifled by the wax
companies
since it would put them out of business or change the nature of kick
waxing?

That's why the Toko Tech Team exists - to hunt down and eliminate brave
inventors who threaten our hold on the worldwide economy.

Kind of like the 70 mph carbureator...

Jay Tegeder
"Keep training, lycra never lies!" JT

Wassberg, aka "Slacken" as oppossed to "Lacka" Lars Halland...

Jay Tegeder
"It's not how fast you go, it's how many fast people you know!" JT

"Gary Jacobson" wrote in message ...
Wasn't this done in an WC race, maybe in 1983, when some skier classic
skied the tough first half of the course, and then tore off tape overwhich
hard wax was applied, and then he skated to victory?
Nordic urban legend?

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY where finally there is snow covering the ground.

"Rob Bradlee" wrote in message
o.com...

2) Is this something that would have been stifled by the wax
companies
since it would put them out of business or change the nature of kick
waxing?

That's why the Toko Tech Team exists - to hunt down and eliminate brave
inventors who threaten our hold on the worldwide economy. Actually, if
it's a good idea then the wax companies will probably develop their own
"wax tape". That's what Start did, no? The wax companies are in the
business of selling products to help your skiing. Whatever technology
comes along they will follow.

I can see some serious problems with it though - how do you get it
sticky enough to stick to a cold ski, but still be able to get it off?
and would its surface have the right combo of kick and glide? How
would you vary the thickness?

Perhaps other wax companies have tried the tape concept and not been
able to make it work. Look at liquid waxes. Cerax sounded great, but
it turned out to have too strong a solvent in it and clogged the base
necessitating stone-grinding after a few applications. It's very
tricky to make a good liquid wax. (I think Toko has succeeded with
Helx, but that's another story).

Rob Bradlee
Toko Tech Team

In article , Jay Tegeder wrote:
Wassberg, aka "Slacken" as oppossed to "Lacka" Lars Halland...
^^^^^^^
To pick nits, it's "säcken".

/Tomas

--
Caps and foobar are normally not parts of my address.