Classic Skiing Doomed At The World Cup Level?

Just prior to Thomas Alsgard's retirement he was asked about the
future of classic skiing for WC racing. He felt it would unfortunately
be phased out. His reasons were the need for more equipment for skiers
at all racing levels and standardizing the sport. Over the years I've
heard some high school coaches voicing the same concerns. From a
groomers concern it's generally much easier to groom for skating
especially in really hard pack conditions. However, it would be really
unfortunate if classic skiing was left out of competitive skiing. Some
of the most exciting races have been relays combining both classic and
skating e.g. Men's 4X10 at Lillihamer. Moreover, the Marcilonga World
Loppet Race this past season showed exciting classic skiing. Thousands
of skiers traveled through narrow alley ways and tunnels in small
villages. I guess it boils down to parents and Bill Koch level coaches
teaching young skiers the classic technique and keeping the fire
burning.

I guess it boils down to parents and Bill Koch level coaches
teaching young skiers the classic technique and keeping the fire
burning.

and converted cyclists and triathlon geeks who only skate?

While your points about grooming and equipment are valid, I think that
striding will hold on as a "fringe" discipline for the same reasons
(whatever they are) that backstroke, breast stroke, and butterfly have
hung around swimming.

bt

sknyski wrote:

I guess it boils down to parents and Bill Koch level coaches

teaching young skiers the classic technique and keeping the fire
burning.


and converted cyclists and triathlon geeks who only skate?

While your points about grooming and equipment are valid, I think that
striding will hold on as a "fringe" discipline for the same reasons
(whatever they are) that backstroke, breast stroke, and butterfly have
hung around swimming.

bt
I don't think you can beat classic for going out into the woods/hiking
trails and moving along unprepped snow! (of course I have never actually
skated!!, so I am really talking through my hat (ski hat of course!!)
gr

I hope the World Cup trend leads to more Freestyle races at the citizens
level also. And widening of trails, especially widening of the portion free
from those parallel grooves.

gr wrote
I don't think you can beat classic for going
out into the woods/hiking trails and moving
along unprepped snow!

But that's not where most Classic _races_ are held. The critical technique
for serious Classic-style _racing_ is double-poling, which doesn't work very
well in fluffy snow. A track groomed firmly enough for good double-poling is
often good for skating too.

The future of Classic _skiing_ is to connect with its origin -- as an
effective means of transportation for the joy of exploring the backcountry
winter outdoors.

Ken

gr wrote
I don't think you can beat classic for going
out into the woods/hiking trails and moving
along unprepped snow!
I'm like gr, that's the only kind of skiing I know but racing does encourage
the development of technique and gear and I don't see how you can have ski races
on unprepared snow, or at least the soft stuff as it wouldn't remain unprepared
for very long. Perhaps classic's future lies with events like ski -o
Andy b

On 20 Jul 2004 08:28:15 -0700, (sknyski) wrote:


and converted cyclists and
triathlon geeks who only skate?

I'm a cyclist who only skates (or skates 95% of the time) because when
I learned to ski, via racing, all races were freestyle.

I took a classic lesson a couple winters ago and it was interesting.
If I had more time on snow I'd try to learn to do it right. Some day.

JT

Sorry for the top post... But, THERE IS NO WAY CLASSIC SKIING IS GOING
AWAY!!! It will always be there in touring, backcountry and racing. In
Minnesota, the kids are repsonsible for buying their own skis so the
schools don't have to fund equipment. When skating took-off in the
late 80s, Minnesota schools went skating only. However, back about 8
years ago or so, they brought classic back and now run a pursuit for
the State Championship with Champions crowned in the classic and skate
portions as well as overall. If the FIS ever got rid of classic, a new
international body would be formed for Nordic. There is no way Norway,
Finland or Sweden are going to tolerate skating only at the World Cup
level. More sprint events, relays, yeah, they're perfect for TV. Less
interval start formats, yeah, ditto.

Jay Tegeder
"Stick around this sport long enough and you'll beat everyone at least
once!" JT


"Ken Roberts" wrote in message ...
I hope the World Cup trend leads to more Freestyle races at the citizens
level also. And widening of trails, especially widening of the portion free
from those parallel grooves.

gr wrote
I don't think you can beat classic for going
out into the woods/hiking trails and moving
along unprepped snow!

But that's not where most Classic _races_ are held. The critical technique
for serious Classic-style _racing_ is double-poling, which doesn't work very
well in fluffy snow. A track groomed firmly enough for good double-poling is
often good for skating too.

The future of Classic _skiing_ is to connect with its origin -- as an
effective means of transportation for the joy of exploring the backcountry
winter outdoors.

Ken

Inherently, I don't see it dieing out because classic technique is the
base of popular skiing. Striders will continue to be generated and most
people will learn striding before skating (and for good reason). Also,
some fast skiers just excel (initially, forever) in striding relative to
skating and I think the racing community will be very hesitant to cut
them out. The big question mark in this to me is not the lack of skis
or that classical is not seen as exciting as skating by youngsters, but
what turns out with the weather, with snow conditions over the coming
years. I imagine that less snow would tend to favor skating and
undercut mass participation.

Gene


Douglas Diehl wrote:

Just prior to Thomas Alsgard's retirement he was asked about the
future of classic skiing for WC racing. He felt it would unfortunately
be phased out. His reasons were the need for more equipment for skiers
at all racing levels and standardizing the sport. Over the years I've
heard some high school coaches voicing the same concerns. From a
groomers concern it's generally much easier to groom for skating
especially in really hard pack conditions. However, it would be really
unfortunate if classic skiing was left out of competitive skiing. Some
of the most exciting races have been relays combining both classic and
skating e.g. Men's 4X10 at Lillihamer. Moreover, the Marcilonga World
Loppet Race this past season showed exciting classic skiing. Thousands
of skiers traveled through narrow alley ways and tunnels in small
villages. I guess it boils down to parents and Bill Koch level coaches
teaching young skiers the classic technique and keeping the fire
burning.

I don't see much indication of classic technique being phased out,
especially at WC level racing.

The rules for sprint competitions provide for either classic or free
technique. Free technique seems to work much better or this type of
competition. I can see free technique sprints becoming more important
because they are fun to watch and easy to televise.

For years skiers have needed both classic and free equipment if they want to
compete in all races. I don't see this any different from alpine racers
needing slalom, GS and downhill skis or cyclists needing mountain, road,
track and time trial bikes. Nobody ever said competing at a national or
international level would be cheap and the equipment costs are not that
significant compared to travel, venue and support costs.

Grooming for classic is not really that much different that free if you have
good equipment with tillers, renovators and hydraulic controlled track
setters. You just pull back on the lever to lower the track setter and keep
driving. The only tricky parts are junctions and knowing when to lift the
tracks on difficult down hills. For high level competition the classic
tracks are usually set by snowmobile on a "best line". Most top level track
setters I know are proud of their ability to do this and I have seldom heard
them complain about difficulty. You just have to follow behind the groomer,
leaving a little time for the snow to set up.

I am not aware of any coaches in British Columbia who do not teach both
techniques to young skiers. Most concentrate on good classic technique
before they introduce skating.

Scott Elliot
"Douglas Diehl" wrote in message
om...
Just prior to Thomas Alsgard's retirement he was asked about the
future of classic skiing for WC racing. He felt it would unfortunately
be phased out. His reasons were the need for more equipment for skiers
at all racing levels and standardizing the sport. Over the years I've
heard some high school coaches voicing the same concerns. From a
groomers concern it's generally much easier to groom for skating
especially in really hard pack conditions. However, it would be really
unfortunate if classic skiing was left out of competitive skiing. Some
of the most exciting races have been relays combining both classic and
skating e.g. Men's 4X10 at Lillihamer. Moreover, the Marcilonga World
Loppet Race this past season showed exciting classic skiing. Thousands
of skiers traveled through narrow alley ways and tunnels in small
villages. I guess it boils down to parents and Bill Koch level coaches
teaching young skiers the classic technique and keeping the fire
burning.

"Douglas Diehl" wrote in message
om...
Just prior to Thomas Alsgard's retirement he was asked about the
future of classic skiing for WC racing. He felt it would unfortunately
be phased out. His reasons were the need for more equipment for skiers
at all racing levels and standardizing the sport.

Do we have a silly season for posting on this group?

Either Douglas is a subversive for posting this, in which case his
name has been taken.
Or he's been overcome by the hot weather and needs to spend
some time in a darkened cool room watching Janne's ski vids to
bring him back to normality.
Mike