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pole length question



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 28th 04, 03:21 PM
Nevalainen, Eric
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Default pole length question

I've seen lots of discussion of pole length for both skating and
striding. For example classic pole length used to be "armpit height",
but recent discussions state "top of the shoulder height".
For skate I've seen "cleft of the chin" or "tip of the nose".

Last night I saw a reference to ideal pole length that went as follows:

skate pole length=users height in CM x .90
classic pole length=users height in CM x .85

The formula SEEMS much less subjective than the "cleft of the chin"
method.....but which is really the true measure? What other factors
should be taken into account?

TIA

e.







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  #2  
Old January 28th 04, 05:53 PM
Griss
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Default pole length question

"Nevalainen, Eric" wrote in message
news:43299D65FC3D8847ACB9E8C44A49256E013282B6@BPEX U1VM1.andersencorp.com...
I've seen lots of discussion of pole length for both skating and
striding. For example classic pole length used to be "armpit height",
but recent discussions state "top of the shoulder height".
For skate I've seen "cleft of the chin" or "tip of the nose".

Last night I saw a reference to ideal pole length that went as follows:

skate pole length=users height in CM x .90
classic pole length=users height in CM x .85

The formula SEEMS much less subjective than the "cleft of the chin"
method.....but which is really the true measure? What other factors
should be taken into account?


Eric: I think you'll find that all of these pole fitting methods generally
work fine and come out pretty close to each other.

However, I've decided that for my purposes (and those of my own and ski club
kids, and most adults), the methods using body landmarks are easiest and
best.

In my personal opinion, fitting the poles - for an advanced skier anyway,
and maybe even a beginner as well - has to be subjective or at least
personalized and no formula fits all. The reason for this is that body
proportions are different (e.g. leg length vs. torso length vs. arm length
vs. neck length, etc) and everyone's skiing abilities, technique and needs
are at least a little different. In addition, nowadays the design of the
grip and basket can make several cm difference in what the effective length
of the pole is. Therefore, if you're a serious skier and like to tweak, you
will probably ending up adjusting within a "normal" range to suit yourself.
My advice is to buy a pole at the top of the "body landmark" range and
gradually cut it down (say 1-2 cm / 3/4 inch) until it seems to work best -
or based on the advice of your coach or instructor.

Even for a beginner, I personally wouldn't trust the formula (e.g. ht X
factor) and would rather fit to a certain spot in the body (arm pit, lips,
whatever). If you're going mail order, you can still do that by simply
measuring with a tape measure.

That said, I've found the following to be very good guidelines (which is
probably exactly what you're referring to above!). All are based on
standing on the floor in your ski boots (or similar shoes). If you're
outside on skis, the measurement should be taken with the pole resting on
top of the ski so it's not sticking into the snow.

Classic/striding: pole should be somewhere between armpit and top of
shoulder. I've settled on pretty much lower mid point - definitely shorter
than the shoulder, but very, very snug when forced up under the armpit.

Skating: Pole should be somewere between bottom of chin to tip of nose.
I've setteled on just a little above chin level - below the lower lip. As
recently as two years ago, I was using "mustache" lenght poles.

On me, both of the above represent a range of about 7-8 cm (3 inches). In
my experience and from talking to others, most everyone has a pole length
within this range that just seems to feel right and promote good body
position. In my experience, I have tended toward the low end of the range
for skating and it really feels better since I cut down my poles. I think
this is because I really mostly ski in hilly country with relatively (not
absolutely!) little flat land techniques such as v-2 alternate or double
poling. I think that if you tend to ski on flatter ground, you might tend
to like longer poles, skating or striding.

I recently cut my 12 year old daughter's new skate poles to this shorter
length and she complained "bitterly" because her old poles were about nose
height. I'll managed to talk her into giving them a whirl, promising to
convert them to classic poles and buying her new skate poles if she really
didn't like them. I really do believe the shorter poles have helped her
improve her body position and efficiency, and she doesn't complain at all
anymore.

Way too much coffee to write that much on pole length.

Griss


  #3  
Old January 28th 04, 06:33 PM
Chris Cline
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Default pole length question

--0-1555813654-1075314405=:95292
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi Eric-
Think "referential", not "subjective". Cold hard numbers sound great until you consider that people's proportions vary. Also, when you're picking out a pole, it's a lot easier to measure a pole against your chin or armpit. As to WHERE on your chin or armpit the pole should reach-- the answer varies a bit. The conventional wisdom seems to change back and forth a bit over time-- currently, the thinking is that poles should be a little shorter. But the answer also varies by your skiing skill, your style, and the type of terrain you will be skiing on. for example, too-long poles tend to put beginning skaters in the "back seat", but longer poles might be an advantage for a skilled skiier on flat terrain. That same skilled skiier might want to use a shorter pair of poles on a course with steep uphills.

clear as mud?

Chris Cline
SLC, UT


"Nevalainen, Eric" wrote:
I've seen lots of discussion of pole length for both skating and
striding. For example classic pole length used to be "armpit height",
but recent discussions state "top of the shoulder height".
For skate I've seen "cleft of the chin" or "tip of the nose".

Last night I saw a reference to ideal pole length that went as follows:

skate pole length=users height in CM x .90
classic pole length=users height in CM x .85

The formula SEEMS much less subjective than the "cleft of the chin"
method.....but which is really the true measure? What other factors
should be taken into account?

TIA

e.








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--0-1555813654-1075314405=:95292
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

DIVHi Eric-/DIV
DIVThink "referential", not "subjective".  Cold hard numbers sound great until you consider that people's proportions vary.  Also, when you're picking out a pole, it's a lot easier to measure a pole against your chin or armpit.  As to WHERE on your chin or armpit the pole should reach-- the answer varies a bit.  The conventional wisdom seems to change back and forth a bit over time-- currently, the thinking is that poles should be a little shorter.  But the answer also varies by your skiing skill, your style, and the type of terrain you will be skiing on.  for example, too-long poles tend to put beginning skaters in the "back seat", but longer poles might be an advantage for a skilled skiier on flat terrain.  That same skilled skiier might want to use a shorter pair of poles on a course with steep uphills./DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVclear as mud?/DIV
DIV /DIV
DIVChris Cline/DIV
DIVSLC, UT/DIV
DIVBRBRBI"Nevalainen, Eric" >/I/B wrote:/DIV
BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"I've seen lots of discussion of pole length for both skating andBRstriding. For example classic pole length used to be "armpit height",BRbut recent discussions state "top of the shoulder height".BRFor skate I've seen "cleft of the chin" or "tip of the nose".BRBRLast night I saw a reference to ideal pole length that went as follows:BRBRskate pole length=users height in CM x .90BRclassic pole length=users height in CM x .85BRBRThe formula SEEMS much less subjective than the "cleft of the chin"BRmethod.....but which is really the true measure? What other factorsBRshould be taken into account?BRBRTIABRBRe.BRBRBRBRBR BRBR/BLOCKQUOTEphr SIZE=1
Do you Yahoo!?br
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21608/*http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/"bTry it!/b/a
--0-1555813654-1075314405=:95292--




  #4  
Old January 28th 04, 07:42 PM
Nevalainen, Eric
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Default pole length question

Griss and Chris:

However, I've decided that for my purposes (and those of my own and ski

club kids, and most
adults), the methods using body landmarks are easiest and best.


It makes sense....and fits with the way I purchaced my gear. What
didn't make sense, was the discrepancy between the number yielded by the
formula, and my actual pole length (nearly 5 cm in one case).

clear as mud?


Absolutely! "referential" makes much more sense. It did make me wonder
though.







  #5  
Old January 28th 04, 08:03 PM
John Forrest Tomlinson
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Default pole length question

(Nevalainen, Eric) wrote in message news:43299D65FC3D8847ACB9E8C44A49256E013282B6@BPE XU1VM1.andersencorp.com...
What other factors
should be taken into account?


Terrain

Skiing style/technique

JT
  #6  
Old January 28th 04, 09:24 PM
JMC
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Default pole length question


"Nevalainen, Eric" wrote in message
news:43299D65FC3D8847ACB9E8C44A49256E013282B6@BPEX U1VM1.andersencorp.com...
Last night I saw a reference to ideal pole length that went as follows:

skate pole length=users height in CM x .90
classic pole length=users height in CM x .85


This sounds like Exel's "rule of thumb". Using this, I would need 144,5cm
poles for classic (170cm x .85).
Poles this lenght are above the top of my shoulders. I did try 145cm (that's
about a 1/4 inch longer) poles but they felt too long. I ended up cutting
down to 142cm, just below my shoulder top. These ratios are averages. Nobody
is average.
In case of doubt, buy longer poles and cut down until you feel they are the
right lenght.

JMC


  #7  
Old February 1st 04, 08:42 PM
Gene Goldenfeld
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Default pole length question

Griss wrote:

Classic/striding: pole should be somewhere between armpit and top of
shoulder. I've settled on pretty much lower mid point - definitely shorter
than the shoulder, but very, very snug when forced up under the armpit.


I found your introductory discussion good, but this specific classical
one is why I suggest students walk out if someone starts the armpit
measurement. If you stop and think about the soft skin there, varying
arm angles, and vague descriptions like the one above, then it's clear
that the armpit can generate very different measurements. "Mid
shoulder" is common, top of the shoulder ok if the sloping shoulder
angle is recognized, but the bone on the side of the shoulder is easily
identifiable and, according to Marty Hall, the max. Occasionally, I'll
hear or see longer recs, but one concern is that the poles not be so
long that the skier is forced too upright.

Gene
  #8  
Old February 2nd 04, 12:34 AM
Sarissa
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Default pole length question

Is that on or off skis?......etc
Sarissa

Gene Goldenfeld wrote:

Griss wrote:


Classic/striding: pole should be somewhere between armpit and top of
shoulder. I've settled on pretty much lower mid point - definitely shorter
than the shoulder, but very, very snug when forced up under the armpit.



I found your introductory discussion good, but this specific classical
one is why I suggest students walk out if someone starts the armpit
measurement. If you stop and think about the soft skin there, varying
arm angles, and vague descriptions like the one above, then it's clear
that the armpit can generate very different measurements. "Mid
shoulder" is common, top of the shoulder ok if the sloping shoulder
angle is recognized, but the bone on the side of the shoulder is easily
identifiable and, according to Marty Hall, the max. Occasionally, I'll
hear or see longer recs, but one concern is that the poles not be so
long that the skier is forced too upright.

Gene



  #9  
Old February 2nd 04, 04:11 AM
Gene Goldenfeld
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Default pole length question

Sarissa wrote:

Is that on or off skis?......etc
Sarissa


Preferably in ski boots, either off skis or on ski with pole tip (or
tape measure) resting on the ski surface. Generally, the measurement
should be to the top of the grip. However, with the Toko/Yoko 232s a
good 1-2 cm longer and other grips not exactly the same to top or strap
opening, it's best to start on the long side and work down.

Gene
 




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