Waxless backcountry ski recommendations

Hello,

I currently do some of my backcountry skiing on Karhu Kinetics with
NNNII bindings. These are very old waxless skiis with metal edges, and
no sidecut. For the terrain that we like to ski, and the style that we
like to ski, they are perfect. Except, they are getting old, and I
would like to try something new, with sidecut.

I have real tele gear, with real tele boots for ski mountaineering.

What I am looking for is skis for easy yo yo skiing on good snow and
mild terrain. So any recommendation on recent advances in waxless
metal edge skis.

mark

On 29 Jan 2005 08:03:05 -0800, wrote:

Hello,

I currently do some of my backcountry skiing on Karhu Kinetics with
NNNII bindings. These are very old waxless skiis with metal edges, and
no sidecut. For the terrain that we like to ski, and the style that we
like to ski, they are perfect. Except, they are getting old, and I
would like to try something new, with sidecut.

I have real tele gear, with real tele boots for ski mountaineering.

What I am looking for is skis for easy yo yo skiing on good snow and
mild terrain. So any recommendation on recent advances in waxless
metal edge skis.

mark


I like my Fischer Outbound Crowns, although I've only used them once
for a short ski this year. (Snows sort of thin for backcountry around
here.)

g.c.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello,

I currently do some of my backcountry skiing on Karhu Kinetics with
NNNII bindings. These are very old waxless skiis with metal edges, and
no sidecut. For the terrain that we like to ski, and the style that we
like to ski, they are perfect. Except, they are getting old, and I
would like to try something new, with sidecut.


Hi,

This year I decided to replace my old Karhu XCDGTs/SNS-BC bindings/Salomon
BC boots with Karhu Pavos/NNN-BC magnum bindings/Alpina 1550 BC boots. At
first I wasn't happy with the boots but that ended up being a break-in
issue. The NNN-BC magnums are a little plasticy but they work well.
Compared to my old XCDs, the Pavos are much more comfortable and
controllable. In fact, I can't believe how much effort I was expending
staying on top of the old XCDs. I ski backcountry in the southern rockies
and the Pavos work really well for me.

Incidentally, I heard Karhu skis are going to be made in China next year.
So, if you want Karhu skis that were handmade in Canada you should buy soon.
I bought my skis/boots/bindings package from LLBean.

-Bob

I just bought a package from LLBean -- the Karhu stuff. I really love
the skis -- not backcountry though....and I upgraded to the Northwoods
boots. The cheaper boots are real crap. The first time I put them on,
one of the plastic loops broke on the left boot, and my feet were
freezing in them....they didn't breathe and they weren't very well
insulated. I sent them back -- no postage because LL Bean is good that
way -- and bought the Northwoods boots which are better. I still like
my old Alpina boots better but they are for NNN bindings.

June




Hi,

This year I decided to replace my old Karhu XCDGTs/SNS-BC
bindings/Salomon
BC boots with Karhu Pavos/NNN-BC magnum bindings/Alpina 1550 BC
boots. At
first I wasn't happy with the boots but that ended up being a
break-in
issue. The NNN-BC magnums are a little plasticy but they work well.
Compared to my old XCDs, the Pavos are much more comfortable and
controllable. In fact, I can't believe how much effort I was
expending
staying on top of the old XCDs. I ski backcountry in the southern
rockies
and the Pavos work really well for me.

Incidentally, I heard Karhu skis are going to be made in China next
year.
So, if you want Karhu skis that were handmade in Canada you should
buy soon.
I bought my skis/boots/bindings package from LLBean.

-Bob

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article .com,
wrote:
Hello,

I currently do some of my backcountry skiing on Karhu Kinetics with
NNNII bindings. These are very old waxless skiis with metal edges, and
no sidecut. For the terrain that we like to ski, and the style that we
like to ski, they are perfect. Except, they are getting old, and I
would like to try something new, with sidecut.

I have real tele gear, with real tele boots for ski mountaineering.

What I am looking for is skis for easy yo yo skiing on good snow and
mild terrain. So any recommendation on recent advances in waxless
metal edge skis.


_ IMHO, the Fischer S-Bounds series of skis are far and away the
best of the bunch. They come in 4 different widths, pick the one
that makes the most sense to you. Thinner for better kick'n'glide
fatter for better turning.

http://www.fischer-ski.com/en/nordic/

_ They are pricy, and you can get close with much cheaper skis
from Atomic, Alpina or Karhu, but you won't regret buying these
skis. The base on these doesn't climb as well as some, but it's
fast enough for reasonable kick'n'glide and I use kicker skins
anyway when it gets steep.

_ Booker C. Bense

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In article ,
_ They are pricy, and you can get close with much cheaper skis
from Atomic, Alpina or Karhu, but you won't regret buying these
skis. The base on these doesn't climb as well as some, but it's
fast enough for reasonable kick'n'glide and I use kicker skins
anyway when it gets steep.

I've got some older Rossignol Tempo Ridge BCs. They're
heavy and slow, but they turn well and they climb like
you've got little goats on your feet. But boy, are they
slow.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

In 1978, George Bush was warning that Social Security
would go broke in 10 years

June,
LLBean sells some funny looking skis, short and wide. We have some
real good ski shops up north in Michigan and they don't sell them. I
suspect if they worked well in Michigan, they would sell skis like that.
Since they don't, and you don't see many skiers on LLBean skis, I am
very suspicious of the ski stuff I see in LLBean's catalogs. (Their
lightweight PowerDry underwear is excellent)
"Back Country skis in Michigan are called snowshoes" - Eris Sharp,
Detroit Free Press.
For skiing trails that are ungroomed in Michigan, the Fischer Touring
Crown is a full length wide ski that has a good reputation here (don't
know if that is the current model). Novices show up at Ann Arbor Ski
Club and Washtinaw Ski Touring Club outings with metal edged nordic
skis. They are usually asked "Did you buy your cross country skis at
REI"? (I think the two Michigan REI stores also sell snake bite kits. I
know the sell mountain climbing gear. All three things are about equally
suited to Michigan Grin)

Cheers,
Bruce Freeburger
USENET(at)BIKESonTV.com




JCZ wrote:

I just bought a package from LLBean -- the Karhu stuff. I really love
the skis -- not backcountry though....and I upgraded to the Northwoods
boots. The cheaper boots are real crap. The first time I put them on,
one of the plastic loops broke on the left boot, and my feet were
freezing in them....they didn't breathe and they weren't very well
insulated. I sent them back -- no postage because LL Bean is good that
way -- and bought the Northwoods boots which are better. I still like
my old Alpina boots better but they are for NNN bindings.

June

Bruce, you may think the skis that LLBean sells are funny looking --
but the ones I bought are Karhu skis (I saw the same thing on the
Karhu website but a different color -- same cut though and same type)
and are quite perfect for the conditions I've been skiing in, both
cutting my own trails and skiing in groomed trails. They give
wonderful glide and are just perfect. I had some Rossignol's that were
awful. I couldn't get any kick on them -- I think they were for
someone heavier, and I was sold them from a reputable ski shop I think
because the were what the shop had and they wanted to get rid of them.
They knew I was a newbie, and it was my fault for not knowing
anything. I spoke with the sales rep at LL Bean for a long time. They
aren't a crooked outfit. The sales person told me if I was unhappy to
send them back for a refund. I'm not unhappy. I'm VERY happy. I can't
imagine anything better for me. I'm getting good kick and good glide.
If I'm happy, and they are working for me, I'm not concerned about
whether they are sold in a ski shop or not. They work and they work
well.

June
PS: I like the way they look.


"Bruce Freeburger"
wrote in message ...
June,
LLBean sells some funny looking skis, short and wide. We have
some
real good ski shops up north in Michigan and they don't sell them. I
suspect if they worked well in Michigan, they would sell skis like
that.
Since they don't, and you don't see many skiers on LLBean skis, I am
very suspicious of the ski stuff I see in LLBean's catalogs. (Their
lightweight PowerDry underwear is excellent)
"Back Country skis in Michigan are called snowshoes" - Eris
Sharp,
Detroit Free Press.
For skiing trails that are ungroomed in Michigan, the Fischer
Touring
Crown is a full length wide ski that has a good reputation here
(don't
know if that is the current model). Novices show up at Ann Arbor Ski
Club and Washtinaw Ski Touring Club outings with metal edged nordic
skis. They are usually asked "Did you buy your cross country skis at
REI"? (I think the two Michigan REI stores also sell snake bite
kits. I
know the sell mountain climbing gear. All three things are about
equally
suited to Michigan Grin)

Cheers,
Bruce Freeburger
USENET(at)BIKESonTV.com




JCZ wrote:

I just bought a package from LLBean -- the Karhu stuff. I really
love
the skis -- not backcountry though....and I upgraded to the
Northwoods
boots. The cheaper boots are real crap. The first time I put them
on,
one of the plastic loops broke on the left boot, and my feet were
freezing in them....they didn't breathe and they weren't very well
insulated. I sent them back -- no postage because LL Bean is good
that
way -- and bought the Northwoods boots which are better. I still
like
my old Alpina boots better but they are for NNN bindings.

June

"Bruce Freeburger" wrote in
message ...
June,
LLBean sells some funny looking skis, short and wide. We have some
real good ski shops up north in Michigan and they don't sell them. I
suspect if they worked well in Michigan, they would sell skis like that.
Since they don't, and you don't see many skiers on LLBean skis, I am
very suspicious of the ski stuff I see in LLBean's catalogs. (Their
lightweight PowerDry underwear is excellent)
"Back Country skis in Michigan are called snowshoes" - Eris Sharp,
Detroit Free Press.
For skiing trails that are ungroomed in Michigan, the Fischer Touring
Crown is a full length wide ski that has a good reputation here (don't
know if that is the current model). Novices show up at Ann Arbor Ski
Club and Washtinaw Ski Touring Club outings with metal edged nordic
skis. They are usually asked "Did you buy your cross country skis at
REI"? (I think the two Michigan REI stores also sell snake bite kits. I
know the sell mountain climbing gear. All three things are about equally
suited to Michigan Grin)


I don't know about the usefulness of mountain climbing gear in MI but a
friend and I have been considering metal edged skis for some of the nastier
conditions we in which we XC ski in SE MI. In fact, just yesterday I was
out at Independence Oaks County park skiing with another buddy and his
neighbor. The neighbor had some metal edge BC skis which he said really
help when things turn a bit icy like they have lately. He certainly had
less problems going down the slicker hills with them than I did with my
Fischer touring skis and I have far more experience on those hills than he
does.

As far as the suitability of snake bite kits goes, they're as useful here as
anywhere else. The venomous Massasgua rattlesnake is found in lowlands and
marshy areas all over SE Michigan. In fact, the aforementioned Independence
Oaks has large enough population that they've seen fit to post warnings
around the park. And I've had them in my backyard which is about a mile
from the park border.

KLydesdale,
I took private lessons from Lou Awdrey at Boyne Mountain Nodican on
how to turn with cross country skis once. Among LOTS of things I learned
we
1. "You don't need metal edges on cross country skis" - Lou
(I will qualify that statement in that he is talking about
track skiing on groomed trails)

2. "This will improve your downhill skiing" - Lou
He taught me to make ski turns by using my body positioning. I had been
downhill skiing for years using the downhill equipment as a crutch (as
do just about all downhill skiers below the elite level). After skiing
all day Friday on the cross country skis, Saturday was a MACC giant
slalom on Super Bowl. I got off the chairlift and made the first turn
with downhill boots and tuned GS racing skis. Wow! The skis turned! They
just STUCK to the snow and I was standing almost straight up. I made
several free skiing runs getting used to using my body to turn, rather
than the equipment, and tried to find the limit in how much further I
could lean in and carve GS turns. I got a second place in that mornings
race. It was my best finish of the year, and mathematically locked up my
third place standings for the season cup.



I did three laps of the Spring Lake + Ted Gray at Independence Oaks
Feb 26. Yes, there was ice. No, there was no ice where you had to turn.
Yes, there were often people sitting on their butts on the side of the
downhills as I came down.

If the FIS World Cup Cross Country racers would go faster with metal
edges, don't you think they would jump at the chance to have that advantage?


IF YOU CAN'T TURN, THEN TAKE PROFESSIONAL LESSONS


Snake Bite kits:
The Independence Oaks massasauga warning sign is mostly to keep people
(usually boys) from trying to catch and pick up snakes.

[They are a "sit and wait" predator, they don't attack unless agitated.
They like to sun themselves in bright open spaces, and this is when they
are scene most often. Most massasauga bites happen at night when they
are stepped on by a human who is barefoot or wearing open sandals. A
massasauga bite, while rarely fatal, is still a medical emergency. Only
two deaths from massasauga bites are known, and neither person got
medical attention]
- the above just found online

I remember snake bite kits, and instructions on how to use them, from
Cub Scouts and Boy's Life magazine in the 60's. I read a much more
recent Backpacker Magazine article on snakebites. (I also read a
Backpacker Magazine article on getting water from a cactus, equally as
useful to cross country skiing in Michigan Grin). Anyway, those old
snake bite kits (and also tourniquets) are as obsolete as using leeches.
A medical "extractor" (sort of a syringe in reverse, with a toilet
plunger type nozzle), combined with getting the victim to an emergency
room, is the current best advice.
(I am saying this because you have them in your backyard. The rattles
fall off, by the way)

To be fair to REI, I honestly don't know if they sell snake bite kits.

I will still continue to make the following advice:

DON'T BUY CROSS COUNTRY SKIS FROM A STORE THAT SELLS SNAKE BITE KITS!

Cheers,
Bruce Freeburger
get rid of SNOWMOBILES and UNLEASHEDDOGS before replying



KLydesdale wrote:
"Bruce Freeburger" wrote in
message ...

I don't know about the usefulness of mountain climbing gear in MI but a
friend and I have been considering metal edged skis for some of the nastier
conditions we in which we XC ski in SE MI. In fact, just yesterday I was
out at Independence Oaks County park skiing with another buddy and his
neighbor. The neighbor had some metal edge BC skis which he said really
help when things turn a bit icy like they have lately. He certainly had
less problems going down the slicker hills with them than I did with my
Fischer touring skis and I have far more experience on those hills than he
does.

As far as the suitability of snake bite kits goes, they're as useful here as
anywhere else. The venomous Massasgua rattlesnake is found in lowlands and
marshy areas all over SE Michigan. In fact, the aforementioned Independence
Oaks has large enough population that they've seen fit to post warnings
around the park. And I've had them in my backyard which is about a mile
from the park border.