Start Map Black and Star Yellow Uniblock

The Tech Tips by Sierra Nordic
( http://www.sierranordic.com/Tech_tips_archives.html ) are excellent.
Many of them recommend using Star Map Black and Star Yellow Uniblock for
base prepping and waxing, but Star products are not easy for me to
purchase locally.

Sierra Nordic explains why they recommend these two particular products,
but I'm wondering if I can substitute other graphite/anti-static and
warm non-silicon paraffin waxes. For example, I have a stick of Start
Graphite and a package of Briko Anti-Static Skating Course powder that I
won at races. Also, Swix, Toko, Start, and Kuu products are widely
available locally.

I searched "group:rec.skiing.nordic group:rec.skiing.nordic". Most of
the references to the two Star products are by Gene Goldenfeld and Rob
Bradlee (in his pre-Toko days), but no substitutes are mentioned.

Thanks.

Kevin Miller
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
"We have become so attached to the idea of convenience that we
will put up with almost any inconvenience to achieve it." Bill Bryson

Not exactly(?) what you're looking for but, Star Wax can be purchased online
at Jenex.com

Sierra Nordic sells Star waxes, thus they are going to promote how to
use them. From a chemical standpoint, it's probaby better, or at least
safer and cheaper, to go with one of the product lines you already own
and substitute into Noel's instructions accordingly. As a guide, check
which companies have tables for the different waxes and conditions.
Watch the race day suggestions from the different companies for
guidance. Also check the Eagle River Nordic website to see if Bert's
wax table is still up and reasonably current. Good luck,

Gene

Kevin Miller wrote:

The Tech Tips by Sierra Nordic
( http://www.sierranordic.com/Tech_tips_archives.html ) are excellent.
Many of them recommend using Star Map Black and Star Yellow Uniblock for
base prepping and waxing, but Star products are not easy for me to
purchase locally.

Sierra Nordic explains why they recommend these two particular products,
but I'm wondering if I can substitute other graphite/anti-static and
warm non-silicon paraffin waxes. For example, I have a stick of Start
Graphite and a package of Briko Anti-Static Skating Course powder that I
won at races. Also, Swix, Toko, Start, and Kuu products are widely
available locally.

I searched "group:rec.skiing.nordic group:rec.skiing.nordic". Most of
the references to the two Star products are by Gene Goldenfeld and Rob
Bradlee (in his pre-Toko days), but no substitutes are mentioned.

Thanks.

Kevin Miller
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
"We have become so attached to the idea of convenience that we
will put up with almost any inconvenience to achieve it." Bill Bryson

(Kevin Miller) wrote in message ...

Many of them recommend using Star Map Black and Star Yellow Uniblock for
base prepping and waxing,
but I'm wondering if I can substitute other graphite/anti-static and
warm non-silicon paraffin waxes.

After using a lot of these products and consulting w/ Rob Bradlee and
Zach Caldwell, here's my take on it.

Star Map Black and Map 200 are superb and durable base treatments and
their use can really be felt on snow. Map Black is a little difficult
to apply (I follow Sierra Nordic's advice for application) - high iron
temp and poor workability. Map 200 goes on easy. I've since switched
to the Toko LF / HF Moly. The Toko LF offers the same benefits -
molybdenum, anti-static and graphite - as the Star stuff, at half the
price with much easier application. All my skis get LF Moly every
5-10 waxings. Toko also makes a non-fluoro moly base treatment. I've
never used the Swix graphite base prep.

I'm still using up the three big blocks of Star Uniblock yellow & red
I got a few years ago for base saturation. I'm sure the Swix and Toko
non-fluoro yellow waxes are just as good - I like the Star wax 'cause
it melts & flows at my lowest iron temp setting.

HTH,

- Bob

(Bob Maswick) wrote in message . com...
(Kevin Miller) wrote in message ...

Many of them recommend using Star Map Black and Star Yellow Uniblock for
base prepping and waxing,
but I'm wondering if I can substitute other graphite/anti-static and
warm non-silicon paraffin waxes.

After using a lot of these products and consulting w/ Rob Bradlee and
Zach Caldwell, here's my take on it.

Star Map Black and Map 200 are superb and durable base treatments and
their use can really be felt on snow. Map Black is a little difficult
to apply (I follow Sierra Nordic's advice for application) - high iron
temp and poor workability. Map 200 goes on easy. I've since switched
to the Toko LF / HF Moly. The Toko LF offers the same benefits -
molybdenum, anti-static and graphite - as the Star stuff, at half the
price with much easier application. All my skis get LF Moly every
5-10 waxings. Toko also makes a non-fluoro moly base treatment. I've
never used the Swix graphite base prep.

I'm still using up the three big blocks of Star Uniblock yellow & red
I got a few years ago for base saturation. I'm sure the Swix and Toko
non-fluoro yellow waxes are just as good - I like the Star wax 'cause
it melts & flows at my lowest iron temp setting.

HTH,

- Bob

Waxes with high melting temps can be made more manageable with a
simple cheese grater. Powder up your wax and cover ther ski with a
layer similar to what you'd use w/ cold powder or pure fluoros.You can
grate up a whole bar at a time, store it and apply it when you need
it( the small grater I found stradles the sidewalls and distributes
the wax as you move along the length, requiring no further spreading).
Take your hot iron and tamp the wax down without moving the wax
lengthwise.Just melt it quickly into place in iron width patches. This
fixes the wax into a smooth layer that lessens the risk of a hot iron
touching down on a bare base and also prevents that irritating
"popping off" of the hardened drops of wax- ch4 and Star green users
know what I'm talking about. The heat required for these hard waxes
can really do a number on your base if you're not careful.(Household
iron users may want to rethink trying to wax at these temperatures, a
little hotspot on the base or spike in the temp often does very bad
things to skis). I did a few pair this way and a few touching the wax
to the iron and dribbling the wax on and it was obvious the grated
method saves quite a bit of wax also. It is also a benefit to
initially scrape thes waxes when they are still a little warm. It
helps eliminate the risk of using excessive force and comes off a lot
smoother. If you are appying a cold wax for its base conditioning/
hair removal properties, you should let the ski cool completely so the
wax really sets up and grabs all the fuzzies. I'll bet whole procces
takes less time to do than to explain.

Hey Kevin - I'm a huge fan of the Star Map Black. It's one of the toughest
substances known and adds great durability. For a long time I used it very
regularly. At this point I go through a whole lot more Toko LF Moly. The
Moly is quite a lot softer but for most conditions it provides the base
conditioning and dry lubrication that I'm looking for. Also, it saturates
the base very nicely in the heatbox where the Map Black is impervious to
temperatures that are safe for skis. Finally, for what it's worth,
Molybdenum is THE standard for dry shear lubrication.

So, I still use Map Black for durability and speed when it's very cold. We
used a ton on New England skis at JOs in Fairbanks last season, and we went
through a bunch more during the late-week cold-snap in Rumford last week.
But for day to day base conditioning I'm really partial to the LF Moly.

Incidentally, the Moly and Map Black both work very well as underlayers for
waxes from other brands. I've never once had any "compatibility" issues and
I've tested various topcoats over these waxes against controls with no
underlayers. The Map Black hardens the base enough so that the top-coat
range can "drift" downward a bit. That's not the case with the Moly.

ZC


"Kevin Miller" wrote in message
...
The Tech Tips by Sierra Nordic
( http://www.sierranordic.com/Tech_tips_archives.html ) are excellent.
Many of them recommend using Star Map Black and Star Yellow Uniblock for
base prepping and waxing, but Star products are not easy for me to
purchase locally.

Sierra Nordic explains why they recommend these two particular products,
but I'm wondering if I can substitute other graphite/anti-static and
warm non-silicon paraffin waxes. For example, I have a stick of Start
Graphite and a package of Briko Anti-Static Skating Course powder that I
won at races. Also, Swix, Toko, Start, and Kuu products are widely
available locally.

I searched "group:rec.skiing.nordic group:rec.skiing.nordic". Most of
the references to the two Star products are by Gene Goldenfeld and Rob
Bradlee (in his pre-Toko days), but no substitutes are mentioned.

Thanks.

Kevin Miller
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
"We have become so attached to the idea of convenience that we
will put up with almost any inconvenience to achieve it." Bill Bryson