Helmets

must admit never thought you would see me wearing one , I hate hats n hoods
etc , BUT I jumped in feet 1st and bought a scott helmet , I can hear
really well , actually I don't even feel like I'm wearing the helmet !...but
I do feel like I'm giving it a bit more on the hill now !!, not sure if this
is a subconscious thing because of the helmet , or all the lovely soft
powder around :-)


"Ace" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 16:07:53 +0000, Steve Haigh
wrote:

Prompted by a previous post, what do people think about skiing helmets?

Personally, I'm a convert, but a trip to Jackson Hole is very pursuasive
(very steep, lots of tight trees, scary cliffs etc). I guess it still
very much a matter of debate and I am not in favour of making them
mandatory but I'd be interested to hear what anyone else thinks.

Never worn one, never likely to. I just don't feel I need it.

On the plus side:
They probably reduce the chance of serious head injury in an accident.
(although I know of no proof)

I prefer to use the accident-avoidance tactic. Anything that might
result in head injury is going to be serious in other ways, so I want
to be as certain as I can be that it doesn't happen.

On the down side:

Hearing impairment. I don't even like to ski with a hood on if I can
avoid it, as I believe that hearing is of great value in maintaining
one's personal safety. I wouldn't want this compromised by wearing a
helmet.

May encourage a wearer to take more risks (I doubt this, but I've heard
it said).

As I understand it, it's something over which the wearer has little
control. If he feels less likely to be hurt, he will be inclined to go
faster, steeper or whatever. It would take a conscious effort to avoid
this risk-compensation, which is inherent to human nature.

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the
Ski Club.

"Jeremy Westhead" wrote in message
...
Hmm -

There were noticebly more in Lech this year (based on observation) than in
previous years. The various guides I skied with were all of the opinion
that they were only worn by americans.

They (the guides) and I were unanimous in concluding that we would wear
them
if race training but that if we thought we needed them otherwise, we
shouldn't be skiing....


In La Grave helmets are quite common - and there you have guys who know how
to ski / board - and really don't give a toss about how they look - the more
duck tape the better!! Far more people boarding use them on average - our
guide chooses not to wear them when on skis, but when he changes to a
board - he dons the skid lid - the skiers in our group wear them as well -
but it does depend on what terrain we are doing - I'm a boarder and did not
use it at all in Montgenevre pre xmas - going touring this year in April and
I will not use one then - for obvious reasons - plus if you are prone to
over heating / sweating, like me buying a black helmet was not the most
inteligent thing to do!!

I do find when attacking the trees in the steeps and knowing that there are
many half covered tree stumps & boulders, plus trees lying horizontal under
the powder that a helmet helps my confidence big time - I'm not too sure if
I'd have worn one if others in the group had not purchased one - so there
was a bit of peer pressure, plus it was my other half who made me promise to
buy one after hearing about a annual jaunts in and around La Grave - I
actually rang her one day (very hot 20 degrees in March) if I could be
excused wearing it becasuse I was more liable to have an accident from
dehydration!!!

The Mountain biking argument is so obvious - now 90% of MTB's on the South
Downs use them - but how many ever wipe out? If I'm riding and it's in the
summer and I'm on my own sometimes I do and sometimes I don't - same for
road bikes - when I use to time trial, then I always wore one as I was
taking far more risks in trying to gain seconds...

Regards
WC

WeatherCam wrote:
snip
=20
The Mountain biking argument is so obvious - now 90% of MTB's on the
South Downs use them - but how many ever wipe out? If I'm riding and
it's in the summer and I'm on my own sometimes I do and sometimes I
don't - same for road bikes - when I use to time trial, then I always
wore one as I was taking far more risks in trying to gain seconds...
=20
Regards
WC

Can't comment on boarding with a helmet (although I have been window =
shopping recently...) but I have got experience on wiping out on my =
Mountain Bike a couple of times in the Chilterns - one in particular was =
at 20-25mph on a particulary tricky descent, where I jumped over a gully =
and caught my back wheel on wet chalk (slippy!).

Fortunately I managed to avoid hitting anything with my head (lots of =
bad bruising and blood, but nowt broken!), but the nature of the crash =
convinced me that wearing a helmet is a very good idea. In the summer I =
take it off for climbs and only put it back on when descending.

--=20
cupra (remove nospam please to mail)

"PG" wrote in message
...
| Children are less able to risk assess than adults and may not be able
| to judge their level of control, I therefore think that they should
| wear helmets.

Seconded. It's the only thing that makes sense. Anyone arguing the
contrary needs their head examining

| In the sue culture that is developing I don't blame ski
| schools for insisting on it as parents are quite likely to blame the
| school if little Johnny crashes into a tree and bangs his head.

Most don't at the moment, but it can't be far off if only for the reason
you've stated. I've seen a study estimating that between 5 and 10% of
skiing accidents result in head injuries of varying severity. Another
one made it clear that you could cut this figure in half by wearing a
well-fitting helmet..
(http://www.partyprogram.com/resources/files/28.pdf). Winter sports such
as skiing and ice-skating account for close to 20,000 brain trauma
injuries annually! And we're not talking about bumps on the head here.
(Thurman DJ, Branche CM, Sniezek JE. The Epidemiology of Sports-Related
Brain Injuries in the United States: Recent Developments. Journal of
Head Trauma Rehabilitation 1998.)


.../...

| The majority of skiing injuries affect limbs but these usually repair
| themselves after a few weeks. A head injury can be permanent and much
| more difficult to cope with.

When you've watched someone spend a few months in a coma, to emerge
gradually, but seriously disabled for good, believe me you tend to be
less blasé about alleged erosion of civil liberties and personal
freedoms. Anyone coming out with silly soapbox hyperbole about nanny
states in the physio ward of the RHND** would probably be lynched on the
spot by any parents/family present. (RHND** : Royal Hospital for
Neurodisability)

I have to confess I am one of those who dislikes intensly nanny state
initiatives, I recognise that the state may have a duty of care to children
who are not able to assess risk themselves.
However I do believe the Medical Establishment is somewhat hectoring in
their attitude to what is good for people and to keen to call for
legislation.
I do not have the figures that you have. However I find it very hard to
believe that my risk from not wearing a helmet on the ski slopes is greater
than not wearing one in my car.

I do not wish to diminish the anguish anyone must feel in seeing a loved one
emerge from a coma and the mental trauma it must bring to them.
I do not however believe that the state has any right to tell me what to do
for my own safety.

The state allows people to smoke and drink to excess which may endanger
others.
I have in the past ridden a motorbike without a helmet and ski without one
as well. I would certainly not wish to prevent other people form wearing
them, some of whom may take greater risks than I do but part of my enjoyment
of skiing is the wind in my hair and I hope to continue this enjoyment for
years to come and am off to the slopes tomorrow.
Rant Over,

Bob

" cupra" wrote in message
...
WeatherCam wrote:
snip

The Mountain biking argument is so obvious - now 90% of MTB's on the
South Downs use them - but how many ever wipe out? If I'm riding and
it's in the summer and I'm on my own sometimes I do and sometimes I
don't - same for road bikes - when I use to time trial, then I always
wore one as I was taking far more risks in trying to gain seconds...

Regards
WC

Can't comment on boarding with a helmet (although I have been window
shopping recently...) but I have got experience on wiping out on my Mountain
Bike a couple of times in the Chilterns - one in particular was at 20-25mph
on a particulary tricky descent, where I jumped over a gully and caught my
back wheel on wet chalk (slippy!).

Fortunately I managed to avoid hitting anything with my head (lots of bad
bruising and blood, but nowt broken!), but the nature of the crash convinced
me that wearing a helmet is a very good idea. In the summer I take it off
for climbs and only put it back on when descending.

--
cupra (remove nospam please to mail)

So having experienced the good old MTB wipeout - do you wipe out more in
skiing / boarding than MTB's adn would you waer a helemt in the
mounntains...?

Mind you you're talking to someone who did a triple spiral fracture of my
lower leg four years ago on my brand new Kona MTB - I was pulling wheelies
on it just outside the house - lost the bike landed on my left leg with foot
sinking into wet grass whilst my body kept rotating = net result foot at
right angles to leg ----- CAREFUL IT'S DANGEROUS OUT THERE - had to go on
family(s) ski trip still in plaster that year - snow was crap anyway!!!

Regards
WC

WeatherCam wrote:



In La Grave helmets are quite common - and there you have guys who know how
to ski / board - and really don't give a toss about how they look - the more
duck tape the better!!
I don't want to turn this thread into a low-quality flame war, so don't
get the wrong idea here, but maybe a helmet is part of the
"extreme-skier" duct tape style, and *some* skiers min places like La
Grave and Chamonix may be wearing a helmet because they do care how they
look? Maybe, in some circles it is a bit of a fashion item now. I
personally don't think this is a bad thing, whatever the reason I am in
favour of people wearing helmets.


Far more people boarding use them on average - our
guide chooses not to wear them when on skis, but when he changes to a
board - he dons the skid lid - the skiers in our group wear them as well -
but it does depend on what terrain we are doing -
Interesting. I guess I can see why a boarder may be more keen, I reckon
there is more chance of banging you head on a board than on skis (it's
hard to fall backwards on skis, unless they release, for example)

I'm a boarder and did not
use it at all in Montgenevre pre xmas - going touring this year in April and
I will not use one then - for obvious reasons - plus if you are prone to
over heating / sweating, like me buying a black helmet was not the most
inteligent thing to do!!
I'd agree totaly, hiking or touring is one time when I would probably
leave the helmet at home. Just too hot.


I do find when attacking the trees in the steeps and knowing that there are
many half covered tree stumps & boulders, plus trees lying horizontal under
the powder that a helmet helps my confidence big time - I'm not too sure if
I'd have worn one if others in the group had not purchased one - so there
was a bit of peer pressure, plus it was my other half who made me promise to
buy one after hearing about a annual jaunts in and around La Grave - I
actually rang her one day (very hot 20 degrees in March) if I could be
excused wearing it becasuse I was more liable to have an accident from
dehydration!!!
I remember skiing in trees one day having forgetten my lid. I skied more
hesitently and stopped more, I lacked any fluidity (those who know me
would say that that's normal anyway!). I do not conciously decide to
take more risks when I wear a hemlet, but if my confidence is reduced
when I forget it I think this must mean that I actually do take more
risks when I wear it.


The Mountain biking argument is so obvious - now 90% of MTB's on the South
Downs use them - but how many ever wipe out? If I'm riding and it's in the
summer and I'm on my own sometimes I do and sometimes I don't - same for
road bikes - when I use to time trial, then I always wore one as I was
taking far more risks in trying to gain seconds...
I wonder how much this is a fashion thing? I think most MTB magazines,
videos etc developed an unwritten rule to only show images of MTBers if
they had helmets on, I think this had a big influence on helmet use.

Steve Haigh wrote:

I don't want to turn this thread into a low-quality flame war, so don't
get the wrong idea here, but maybe a helmet is part of the
"extreme-skier" duct tape style, and *some* skiers min places like La
Grave and Chamonix may be wearing a helmet because they do care how they
look? Maybe, in some circles it is a bit of a fashion item now. I
personally don't think this is a bad thing, whatever the reason I am in
favour of people wearing helmets.

I think you've probably got that about right, I think you said elsewhere
you were in the Grand Massif a few weeks back and maybe saw some of the
same people I did :-) There were some people for whom the helment was
clearly one more thing to buy along with this years jackets, radios and
any other gadget they could find, mostly from the UK I thought :-)

On a more general note, I think helmets are getting more popular, I know
when I bought mine the choice was poor and fitting wasn't good and I
bought in Chamonix, the other day in Migros they had an extensive range
of adult helmets though.

Ian

"Bob C" wrote in message
...
|
| "PG" wrote in message
| ...
..../...

| I do not however believe that the state has any right to tell me what
to do
| for my own safety.

That's unrealistic. The argument is about where the line should be
drawn - the alternative is anarchy. And the existence of bad laws, or
the absence of good ones, doesn't justify not having any at all,
especially, in this case, where I was talking about kids, not adults.

Pete
www.skiclublesarcs.com

WeatherCam wrote:
" cupra" wrote in message
...
WeatherCam wrote:
snip
=20
The Mountain biking argument is so obvious - now 90% of MTB's on the
South Downs use them - but how many ever wipe out? If I'm riding and
it's in the summer and I'm on my own sometimes I do and sometimes I
don't - same for road bikes - when I use to time trial, then I =
always
wore one as I was taking far more risks in trying to gain seconds...
=20
Regards
WC
=20
Can't comment on boarding with a helmet (although I have been window
shopping recently...) but I have got experience on wiping out on my
Mountain Bike a couple of times in the Chilterns - one in particular
was at 20-25mph on a particulary tricky descent, where I jumped over
a gully and caught my back wheel on wet chalk (slippy!).
=20
Fortunately I managed to avoid hitting anything with my head (lots of
bad bruising and blood, but nowt broken!), but the nature of the
crash convinced me that wearing a helmet is a very good idea. In the
summer I take it off for climbs and only put it back on when
descending.=20

So having experienced the good old MTB wipeout - do you wipe out more =
in
skiing / boarding than MTB's adn would you waer a helemt in the
mounntains...?


I do wipe out (a lot!) when I'm jumping and I've been thinking of a =
helmet for a while now - whether it'll make me more 'reckless' or not =
I'm not sure, but after seeing my friend headbutt a tree this year =
(fortunately just a bruising) I may invest before my next trip!=20

Mind you you're talking to someone who did a triple spiral fracture of =
my
lower leg four years ago on my brand new Kona MTB - I was pulling =
wheelies
on it just outside the house - lost the bike landed on my left leg with =
foot
sinking into wet grass whilst my body kept rotating =3D net result foot =
at
right angles to leg ----- CAREFUL IT'S DANGEROUS OUT THERE - had to go =
on
family(s) ski trip still in plaster that year - snow was crap anyway!!!

**** - I bet that was painful! Never managed to break anything myself =
yet (touch wood) despite many attempts. How long did it take to recover =
from that one? And was the bike ok?

--=20
cupra (remove nospam please to mail)

"Ian Spare" wrote in message
...
Steve Haigh wrote:

I don't want to turn this thread into a low-quality flame war, so don't
get the wrong idea here, but maybe a helmet is part of the
"extreme-skier" duct tape style, and *some* skiers min places like La
Grave and Chamonix may be wearing a helmet because they do care how they
look? Maybe, in some circles it is a bit of a fashion item now. I
personally don't think this is a bad thing, whatever the reason I am in
favour of people wearing helmets.

I think you've probably got that about right, I think you said elsewhere
you were in the Grand Massif a few weeks back and maybe saw some of the
same people I did :-) There were some people for whom the helment was
clearly one more thing to buy along with this years jackets, radios and
any other gadget they could find, mostly from the UK I thought :-)

On a more general note, I think helmets are getting more popular, I know
when I bought mine the choice was poor and fitting wasn't good and I
bought in Chamonix, the other day in Migros they had an extensive range
of adult helmets though.

Ian

Logical points about LG and Chamonix - mind you, and I don't mind admitting
this, never been to Chamonix because of exactly those reasons - you don't
tend to get that in LG so much, there's no night life and bars to speak off,
one shop, so it doesn't rate highly amongst the poseur brigade, though you
do get the ones who come over for just one day, and then only do the main
Vallons route down, so they can say they've been there....

But hey there are boys who like their toys - I for one can't stand wearing
the damn things....

Actually guys the same debate is raging over in the kitesurfing forums about
helmets - it's not so much the danger out at sea of wiping out, though those
lines can caught around the back of your ears and rip your ears off, but
it's more to do with the very real danger of getting lofted and dragged
along the beach into a brick wall, which has happened with fatal
consequences.... I've been windsurfing since the days of wooden booms and go
out in very extreme conditions but choose not to wear one - when many people
are wearing them when it's half as rough - that's my choice, and their's -
but hey when they are bobbing around in the water they make great gybe
marks!!!!!

Regards
WC