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#1
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lifting toes/wax pocket
Hi,
First season taking waxable classic skiing seriously, so my learning curve is currently steep. My skis are professionally fit and the grip zone marked. I find that I get better glide, especially double poling, when I lift my toes (or press my heels). If I press my toes down, I hit the brakes. Is this normal, or does my grip zone extend too far forward? To do this heel press (or toe lift), it seems to change my downhill tuck position from the one I use skating. The classic position seems to position me further back with straighter ankles. If this is normal, do you try to incorporate this heel glide into each diagonal stride, as well? Is this why the new Solomon striding boots use the carbon heel cup? Thanks, Brian |
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#2
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lifting toes/wax pocket
On Jan 24, 7:11*pm, "Brian Pauley" wrote:
Hi, First season taking waxable classic skiing seriously, so my learning curve is currently steep. My skis are professionally fit and the grip zone marked. *I find that I get better glide, especially double poling, when I lift my toes (or press my heels). *If I press my toes down, I hit the brakes. *Is this normal, or does my grip zone extend too far forward? To do this heel press (or toe lift), it seems to change my downhill tuck position from the one I use skating. *The classic position seems to position me further back with straighter ankles. If this is normal, do you try to incorporate this heel glide into each diagonal stride, as well? *Is this why the new Solomon striding boots use the carbon heel cup? Thanks, Brian Does the wax pocket of the ski extend in front of your toes? Have you tried moving the wax pocket further back? It may be professionally fit, but the fine adjustments are up to you ( and will depend on ski conditions). |
#3
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lifting toes/wax pocket
I thought of it differently. On downhills, riding your heels is a
good way to gain more speed on classical skis. The latter are flexed differently in the center portion than skate skis because the push into the snow is different in the two styles. Do you really mean pressing your toes down, or just riding a full foot? There's no reason I know of to do the first. If, OTOH, you're feeling the need to raise your forefoot in normal double poling, and I feel that need occasionally, then, assuming good technique, it's likely either the snow, the flex (fit) of your skis (absolutely or relative to the snow conditions), or your wax pocket is dragging in front, meaning it's a little too thick or long up there. The latter is where I'd start. For some ideas, see http://www.caldwellsport.com/ski-ser...ex-evaluation/, including the PDFs. You can fine tune length and thickness of wax pocket by waxing a bit longer than normal and then looking at how it's worn after a good ski. Gene " wrote: On Jan 24, 7:11*pm, "Brian Pauley" wrote: Hi, First season taking waxable classic skiing seriously, so my learning curve is currently steep. My skis are professionally fit and the grip zone marked. *I find that I get better glide, especially double poling, when I lift my toes (or press my heels). *If I press my toes down, I hit the brakes. *Is this normal, or does my grip zone extend too far forward? To do this heel press (or toe lift), it seems to change my downhill tuck position from the one I use skating. *The classic position seems to position me further back with straighter ankles. If this is normal, do you try to incorporate this heel glide into each diagonal stride, as well? *Is this why the new Solomon striding boots use the carbon heel cup? Thanks, Brian Does the wax pocket of the ski extend in front of your toes? Have you tried moving the wax pocket further back? It may be professionally fit, but the fine adjustments are up to you ( and will depend on ski conditions). |
#4
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lifting toes/wax pocket
On Jan 25, 6:42*am, wrote:
I thought of it differently. *On downhills, riding your heels is a good way to gain more speed on classical skis. *The latter are flexed differently in the center portion than skate skis because the push into the snow is different in the two styles. Do you really mean pressing your toes down, or just riding a full foot? *There's no reason I know of to do the first. If, OTOH, you're feeling the need to raise your forefoot in normal double poling, and I feel that need occasionally, then, assuming good technique, it's likely either the snow, the flex (fit) of your skis (absolutely or relative to the snow conditions), or your wax pocket is dragging in front, meaning it's a little too thick or long up there. The latter is where I'd start. *For some ideas, seehttp://www.caldwellsport.com/ski-service/flex-evaluation/, including the PDFs. *You can fine tune length and thickness of wax pocket by waxing a bit longer than normal and then looking at how it's worn after a good ski. Gene " wrote: On Jan 24, 7:11*pm, "Brian Pauley" wrote: Hi, First season taking waxable classic skiing seriously, so my learning curve is currently steep. My skis are professionally fit and the grip zone marked. *I find that I get better glide, especially double poling, when I lift my toes (or press my heels). *If I press my toes down, I hit the brakes. *Is this normal, or does my grip zone extend too far forward? To do this heel press (or toe lift), it seems to change my downhill tuck position from the one I use skating. *The classic position seems to position me further back with straighter ankles. If this is normal, do you try to incorporate this heel glide into each diagonal stride, as well? *Is this why the new Solomon striding boots use the carbon heel cup? Thanks, Brian Does the wax pocket of the ski extend in front of your toes? Have you tried moving the wax pocket further back? It may be professionally fit, but the fine adjustments are up to you ( and will depend on ski conditions).- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Hi, Yes, see the Zach Caldwell/Bolder Nordic ski fit explaination or the Nordic Ultratune http://www.ultratune.net/flextesting.html website re ski fit. Loading the ski at about the ball of the foot *i.e. 8cm back) vs. flat foot (15 cm back of balance) changes the camber curve. Load the ball of foot (8 cm) for grip and ski flat footed (15 cm back) for glide. My skis are fitted for easy close. If I get to exuberant double polling and get up on my toes to agressively (with dynamic downward pressure) the grip zone can close. |
#5
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lifting toes/wax pocket
Good to know, thanks.
wrote in message ... On Jan 24, 7:11 pm, "Brian Pauley" wrote: Hi, First season taking waxable classic skiing seriously, so my learning curve is currently steep. My skis are professionally fit and the grip zone marked. I find that I get better glide, especially double poling, when I lift my toes (or press my heels). If I press my toes down, I hit the brakes. Is this normal, or does my grip zone extend too far forward? To do this heel press (or toe lift), it seems to change my downhill tuck position from the one I use skating. The classic position seems to position me further back with straighter ankles. If this is normal, do you try to incorporate this heel glide into each diagonal stride, as well? Is this why the new Solomon striding boots use the carbon heel cup? Thanks, Brian Does the wax pocket of the ski extend in front of your toes? Have you tried moving the wax pocket further back? It may be professionally fit, but the fine adjustments are up to you ( and will depend on ski conditions). |
#6
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lifting toes/wax pocket
So then when you see the pros sprint finishing jumping up on their toes, are
then coming down hard on their heels? Or are they just overcoming the closing by their momentum? wrote in message ... On Jan 25, 6:42 am, wrote: I thought of it differently. On downhills, riding your heels is a good way to gain more speed on classical skis. The latter are flexed differently in the center portion than skate skis because the push into the snow is different in the two styles. Do you really mean pressing your toes down, or just riding a full foot? There's no reason I know of to do the first. If, OTOH, you're feeling the need to raise your forefoot in normal double poling, and I feel that need occasionally, then, assuming good technique, it's likely either the snow, the flex (fit) of your skis (absolutely or relative to the snow conditions), or your wax pocket is dragging in front, meaning it's a little too thick or long up there. The latter is where I'd start. For some ideas, seehttp://www.caldwellsport.com/ski-service/flex-evaluation/, including the PDFs. You can fine tune length and thickness of wax pocket by waxing a bit longer than normal and then looking at how it's worn after a good ski. Gene " wrote: On Jan 24, 7:11 pm, "Brian Pauley" wrote: Hi, First season taking waxable classic skiing seriously, so my learning curve is currently steep. My skis are professionally fit and the grip zone marked. I find that I get better glide, especially double poling, when I lift my toes (or press my heels). If I press my toes down, I hit the brakes. Is this normal, or does my grip zone extend too far forward? To do this heel press (or toe lift), it seems to change my downhill tuck position from the one I use skating. The classic position seems to position me further back with straighter ankles. If this is normal, do you try to incorporate this heel glide into each diagonal stride, as well? Is this why the new Solomon striding boots use the carbon heel cup? Thanks, Brian Does the wax pocket of the ski extend in front of your toes? Have you tried moving the wax pocket further back? It may be professionally fit, but the fine adjustments are up to you ( and will depend on ski conditions).- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Hi, Yes, see the Zach Caldwell/Bolder Nordic ski fit explaination or the Nordic Ultratune http://www.ultratune.net/flextesting.html website re ski fit. Loading the ski at about the ball of the foot *i.e. 8cm back) vs. flat foot (15 cm back of balance) changes the camber curve. Load the ball of foot (8 cm) for grip and ski flat footed (15 cm back) for glide. My skis are fitted for easy close. If I get to exuberant double polling and get up on my toes to agressively (with dynamic downward pressure) the grip zone can close. |
#7
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lifting toes/wax pocket
"Brian Pauley" wrote:
So then when you see the pros sprint finishing jumping up on their toes, are then coming down hard on their heels? Or are they just overcoming the closing by their momentum? They are doing fast power poling, using the force of hands and torso coming forward to go up on the *balls of their feet for a stronger starting position. Longer poles don't hurt either, tho are not necessary. Try it. Gene |
#8
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lifting toes/wax pocket
Brian Pauley wrote:
So then when you see the pros sprint finishing jumping up on their toes, are then coming down hard on their heels? Or are they just overcoming the closing by their momentum? No, the classic sprint pros (like the 5 Norwegian guys who finished 1-5 in the Otepaa (sp?) world cup yesterday) don't need to worry too much about wax drag because they ski on skis with close to zero grip to begin with. I.e. I know that after nearly 50 years of classic skiing I still wouldn't have a chance to ski properly uphill on skis waxed for a pro. Terje PS. On the world cup race yesterday, none of the Norwegians used any grip wax at all, just a rubbed-up grip zone, due to the wet snow coming down. :-) -- - Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching" |
#9
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lifting toes/wax pocket
On Jan 24, 10:11*pm, "Brian Pauley" wrote:
*I find that I get better glide, when I lift my toes (or press my heels). *If I press my toes down, I hit the brakes. *Is this normal, This is normal and probably has little to do w/ how your wax zone is marked, although I do agree that the pocket needs to be fine tuned for different conditions. The body action folks are describing, especially when double poling, is what you should be striving for - hips up and high and elbows thrust forward at the start will likely bring you up onto your toes. Your poling action begins w/ an abdominal crunch motion and finishes w/ your arms. As you are doing this, the weight transfer on your feet is from your toes to your heels and you should feel the skis "shoot" forward because you have lifted the entire wax pocket off the snow. Begin that whole action again either as a DP or as a DP-Kick, continue for thousands of cycles and you win a 25K race! - Bob |
#10
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lifting toes/wax pocket
Terje,
So how do they do it? Just using the little bit of wax as you mentioned, and very good technique at setting that wax? Or is it that they are using more poles/abdomen to propel themselves? Brian "Terje Mathisen" "terje.mathisen at tmsw.no" wrote in message ... Brian Pauley wrote: So then when you see the pros sprint finishing jumping up on their toes, are then coming down hard on their heels? Or are they just overcoming the closing by their momentum? No, the classic sprint pros (like the 5 Norwegian guys who finished 1-5 in the Otepaa (sp?) world cup yesterday) don't need to worry too much about wax drag because they ski on skis with close to zero grip to begin with. I.e. I know that after nearly 50 years of classic skiing I still wouldn't have a chance to ski properly uphill on skis waxed for a pro. Terje PS. On the world cup race yesterday, none of the Norwegians used any grip wax at all, just a rubbed-up grip zone, due to the wet snow coming down. :-) -- - Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching" |
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