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Telemark anyone?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 23rd 11, 07:02 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
runcyclexcski
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Telemark anyone?

I've been a groomed trail skier for quite a while, and started BC
skiing and mountaineering a few seasons back. I've considered myself a
good skier (on trails), but I feel somewhat incapacitated going
downhill in deep powder, with a backpack. A thin crust on top is even
worse - the one not strong enough to hold you (with a 60 lb backpack
especially). Basically, a snowplow and a hockey stop just don't work
in deep powder and in narrow spaces between trees and rocks.

What works then? Telemark? Do I need "heavy" free heel telemark boots
and super-fat shaped skis for telemarking? I've been BC skiing in
Salomon BC boots (essentially beefed up skating boots) and Fischer E99
skis. My mountaineering friends laugh at my gear (saying my skis are
too narrow and long, and the boots are too light), but I like these
boots and skis b/c they are lightweight, I don't get blisters, and I
get great kick and glide. But downhills remain difficult. Will I get
more control going downhill with a backpack if I get heavier duty free
heel boots and fatter skis, or can I somehow learn to Telemark (my
spell check suggests "telemarketing") with Salomon BCs and the E99
skis?
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  #2  
Old November 24th 11, 03:01 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
gr[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 78
Default Telemark anyone?

On 11/23/2011 3:02 PM, runcyclexcski wrote:
I've been a groomed trail skier for quite a while, and started BC
skiing and mountaineering a few seasons back. I've considered myself a
good skier (on trails), but I feel somewhat incapacitated going
downhill in deep powder, with a backpack. A thin crust on top is even
worse - the one not strong enough to hold you (with a 60 lb backpack
especially). Basically, a snowplow and a hockey stop just don't work
in deep powder and in narrow spaces between trees and rocks.

What works then? Telemark? Do I need "heavy" free heel telemark boots
and super-fat shaped skis for telemarking? I've been BC skiing in
Salomon BC boots (essentially beefed up skating boots) and Fischer E99
skis. My mountaineering friends laugh at my gear (saying my skis are
too narrow and long, and the boots are too light), but I like these
boots and skis b/c they are lightweight, I don't get blisters, and I
get great kick and glide. But downhills remain difficult. Will I get
more control going downhill with a backpack if I get heavier duty free
heel boots and fatter skis, or can I somehow learn to Telemark (my
spell check suggests "telemarketing") with Salomon BCs and the E99
skis?

I can't say what you need for the steep downhills, but I had a pair of
wide-ish Fischer Outabounds that had rather poor glide (kick tended to
be OK). The bigger Telemarks suffer from much less glide because of the
width and (usually) much less camber (sometimes none!) to keep the grip
zone up. Of course heavy backpack loads make any ski harder to use;
maybe you must zig-zag more often to go down.


  #3  
Old November 24th 11, 11:47 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
K.A. Moylan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Telemark anyone?

In article , runcyclexcski wrote:

I've been a groomed trail skier for quite a while, and started BC
skiing and mountaineering a few seasons back. I've considered myself a
good skier (on trails), but I feel somewhat incapacitated going
downhill in deep powder, with a backpack. A thin crust on top is even
worse - the one not strong enough to hold you (with a 60 lb backpack
especially). Basically, a snowplow and a hockey stop just don't work
in deep powder and in narrow spaces between trees and rocks.

What works then? Telemark? Do I need "heavy" free heel telemark boots
and super-fat shaped skis for telemarking? I've been BC skiing in
Salomon BC boots (essentially beefed up skating boots) and Fischer E99
skis. My mountaineering friends laugh at my gear (saying my skis are
too narrow and long, and the boots are too light), but I like these
boots and skis b/c they are lightweight, I don't get blisters, and I
get great kick and glide. But downhills remain difficult. Will I get
more control going downhill with a backpack if I get heavier duty free
heel boots and fatter skis, or can I somehow learn to Telemark (my
spell check suggests "telemarketing") with Salomon BCs and the E99
skis?


When I'm skiing obstacle filled runs, I visualize the smoothest path I
can ski between all the obstacles and do that. When my imagined path
needs turns too sharp for me to do, I'll look for a run-out path that
turns up-hill and slows me down without resorting to snowploughs or
sitz-mark stops.

The skis I use most days are Fischer E99s mounted with NNN-BC bindings
and beefed up racing boots, which is a similar set-up to yours. As you
know, they are great for kick and glide but I can also telemark on them.
All it takes is enough practice, starting with wide, easy slopes and
progressing to harder stuff. My telemark turns work best when I am going
fast enough that I don't need to force my skis around, instead just
press them towards where I want them to go and let the skis take me
there. This works well on what passes for powder here and Spring corn.

I still can't ski breakable crust. On really bad days I use the always
reliable kick turn + traverse to get me down.

HTH.

--
K.A. Moylan
Canberra, Australia
Ski Club: http://www.cccsc.asn.au
kamoylan at netspeed dot com dot au
  #4  
Old November 24th 11, 12:07 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Terje Mathisen[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 173
Default Telemark anyone?

K.A. Moylan wrote:
I still can't ski breakable crust. On really bad days I use the always
reliable kick turn + traverse to get me down.


Nobody can. :-(

The best you can do in breakable crust conditions is to get out of them.

It is sometimes possible to stay on top of such crust if you keep both
skis close together and push yourself along very carefully with your poles.

I.e. no stopping, no single-ski weighting.

Terje
--
- Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
  #5  
Old November 24th 11, 12:11 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Terje Mathisen[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 173
Default Telemark anyone?

runcyclexcski wrote:
heel boots and fatter skis, or can I somehow learn to Telemark (my
spell check suggests "telemarketing") with Salomon BCs and the E99
skis?


Yes you can!

I taught myself Telemark turns around 1980, sking with low soft boots
and competition xc skis on an ungroomed slalom hill with 30 cm fresh powder.

The key is that using gear like this forces you to keep your weight on
your toes, a bit more on the front than the back ski.

It is a _lot_ of fun when it works. :-)

Terje
--
- Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
  #6  
Old November 24th 11, 05:27 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
runcyclexcski
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default Telemark anyone?

the bigger Telemarks suffer from much less glide because of the
width and (usually) much less camber (sometimes none!) to keep the grip
zone up


I've noticed that with the wide "mainstream" backcountry skis The
first pair I BC skied on in the Sierras were the Karhu 10th Mountain.
Those things had no camber, weighed a ton and had no glide at all. I
guess the whole point of "mainstream" backcountry skiing is downhill
part... the kick and glide part and the uphill part are mere
unavoidable inconveniences you have to go through to ski down a
mountain. The E99s work magic in kick and glide.
  #7  
Old December 3rd 11, 03:53 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Lucy Potter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Telemark anyone?

On Nov 24, 1:27*pm, runcyclexcski wrote:
the bigger Telemarks suffer from much less glide because of the
width and (usually) much less camber (sometimes none!) to keep the grip
zone up


I've noticed that with the wide "mainstream" backcountry skis The
first pair I BC skied on in the Sierras were the Karhu 10th Mountain.
Those things had no camber, weighed a ton and had no glide at all. I
guess the whole point of "mainstream" backcountry skiing is downhill
part... the kick and glide part and the uphill part are mere
unavoidable inconveniences you have to go through to ski down a
mountain. The E99s work magic in kick and glide.


It's a continuum. BC covers the gamut. Today's short wide skis
sometimes have nowax fishscales that let you easily hike back up.
They're not made for kick'n'glide but for earning your turns,
up'n'down -- and are great for that. But there are also lighter,
narrower short tour skis with metal edges -- Fischer has the new
Spider or whatever it's called -- that let you turn in moderate
conditions with a bit o' iceiness and also let you do kick'n'glide.
Your long E99's are dandy for moderate loads in moderate conditions
and give better kick'n'glide than the shorts but don't turn as good.
Anyway, for every terrain there's a suitable ski.

Then there's you...

Going to a groomed area with your desired gear and getting familiar
with it there is a great idea. If you're a real rookie, start without
a pack and on easy slopes, etc. It's a whole new skill but readily
learned. Heck, you might be wearing a pack and on blue runs and little
bumps by end of the day.

I'd think that quite a lot of crust is skiable -- ya gotta use jump
turns. The new short skis help with that, especially on tight trails.
Longer skis basically need more room. Match gear to situation and
conditions. Of course at some point crust is nasty for everyone but it
can be awfully thick and heavy BC stuff will blast thru it, but again
it won't be kick'n'glide gear.

NNN-BC is great stuff -- but probably steep narrow action --
especially in crust -- and with 60 lb pack -- is overdoing it.

My expert pals can ski basically anything nicely with NNN-BC and light
short 60mm skis -- but they only haul 15 lb pack. And they are extreme
tele monsters on their heavier stuff. So a mere mortal on the same
gear with 60 lb pack isn't going to be doing pretty flowing turns
except in very nice open conditions.

I use reg NNN and new-style short tour skis -- 65mm wide -- with 15 lb
pack -- and find that I have to do the long traverses thru the woods
when it gets steep 'n' dicey. I can tele-shred these skis on the blues
at a groomed area.

Anyway, if there's steep up'n'downs plus plenty of kick'n'glide to do
plus a 60 lb pack plus crust plus novice skills -- ha -- count on the
traverses. Or even hiking.

Doing XC skiing on narrow steep hiking trails is a big challenge.

It's fun finding what fits your needs, skills, conditions, terrain.
Good luck! : )
 




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