Position to mount bindings

Hi. I have a question about the position to put bindings onto cross
country skis. I have never skied on cross country skiis, and only once
on downhill skis so I am a beginner. I realize there is some risk in
mounting your own bindings, but - they are only for fooling around in
the park across the street and I got them on clearance so they were
not that expensive and I'm willing to take the chance. I do, however,
want to learn as much as possible about this so I do the best job I
can.

I wanted to know if I am on the right track before I mount these.
They are the Rossignol Evo Glade AR skis - I am in St. Louis, and you
can't even buy cross country skis around here so I ordered them
online. Boots are Rossignol X2 Touring boots. The binding is the
Vision Classic Binding - Womens. I will be using them at a nearby
park with mostly flat and a few rolling hills, and fairly level rail
to trail bike trails. There are no groomed ski areas so I will be in
new snow, which we only get a few times a winter then it's gone.

There is a line across the ski that I understand is the balance point
(Think I'm remembering that name correctly) When I hold it in my hand
at that point up in the air, it stays level. I stood on the balance
board I have with my ski boots, and marked on my boot the location at
the center of the board, where I am the most stable when standing on
the balance board, so I'd consider this to be my center of gravity
with knees slightly bent. I thought to line that mark on the boot up
along the line on the ski, so my center of gravity is lined up with
the skis balance point and mount them there. Now the directions that
came with the bindings are a little hard to understand, but they
actually show a line as well, and appear to say to line up the line on
their template, with the line on the ski, which puts the binding
further back than I would mount them if I do them the way mentioned
above - I wondered if I should just go with their way, or somewhere in
between.

Thanks.

Meg in St. Louis

Hi Meg,
Highly recommend you take your skis to a shop and have the bindings
installed. They only charge $10-15. There are a lot of things you can do
wrong. Like drilling too big of holes and have the bindings come off,
risking injury. You can also drill through the bottom of the ski. Mounting
the binding in the wrong position can dramatically affect how the skis
glides and more importantly the control of the ski. Finally, it is just
plain difficult to accurately align the holes for the binding on the ski.
The shops have a jig that clamps on to the ski that they use to drill the
holes. Believe me, I've tried to do it myself and it is just not worth it.
More than likely, you'll try it anyway. So at your own risk, a couple of
suggestions. First off, you have located the balance point of the ski. Good
job. A more accurate way of finding it, is to put the ski on top of a flat
knife or screwdriver, rather than use your finger.
Typically, with NNN bindings, the pin slot (where your boot attaches) of
the binding lines up with the balance point of the ski or is slightly
behind. The binding slot is never ahead of the ski balance point. So line up
the binding slot and the ski balance point.
From there you need to drill the holes. Either use the paper template or
try using the binding itself as a guide. As I noted, it is very difficult to
accurately drill these holes. Usually hand drilled holes end up with the
binding mounted crooked on the ski. Make sure you use the correct size drill
bit and don't drill through the bottom of the ski.
Finally, you'll need a Posix type screw driver. It looks like a Phillips
head screw driver, but the tip is more rounded. A Phillips screw driver will
strip out the head of the screw. If you used the correct size drill bit,
you'll discover the screws are very difficult to install, they are tight.
Get it wrong and the screw holes will strip out, wrecking the ski.

Hope this helps you ski in St. Louis. But if you can find any way to
have a shop do it, I'd recommend a shop.

--
Paul Haltvick
Bay Design and Build - LLC
Engineering, Construction
FSx - Fischer / Swix Racing


"Meg" wrote in message
...
Hi. I have a question about the position to put bindings onto cross
country skis. I have never skied on cross country skiis, and only once
on downhill skis so I am a beginner. I realize there is some risk in
mounting your own bindings, but - they are only for fooling around in
the park across the street and I got them on clearance so they were
not that expensive and I'm willing to take the chance. I do, however,
want to learn as much as possible about this so I do the best job I
can.

I wanted to know if I am on the right track before I mount these.
They are the Rossignol Evo Glade AR skis - I am in St. Louis, and you
can't even buy cross country skis around here so I ordered them
online. Boots are Rossignol X2 Touring boots. The binding is the
Vision Classic Binding - Womens. I will be using them at a nearby
park with mostly flat and a few rolling hills, and fairly level rail
to trail bike trails. There are no groomed ski areas so I will be in
new snow, which we only get a few times a winter then it's gone.

There is a line across the ski that I understand is the balance point
(Think I'm remembering that name correctly) When I hold it in my hand
at that point up in the air, it stays level. I stood on the balance
board I have with my ski boots, and marked on my boot the location at
the center of the board, where I am the most stable when standing on
the balance board, so I'd consider this to be my center of gravity
with knees slightly bent. I thought to line that mark on the boot up
along the line on the ski, so my center of gravity is lined up with
the skis balance point and mount them there. Now the directions that
came with the bindings are a little hard to understand, but they
actually show a line as well, and appear to say to line up the line on
their template, with the line on the ski, which puts the binding
further back than I would mount them if I do them the way mentioned
above - I wondered if I should just go with their way, or somewhere in
between.

Thanks.

Meg in St. Louis

Meg,
At the risk of delaying your skiing adventures, I strongly agree with
Paul on this one. The chances of your getting it right without the jig
and the posidrive screw driver are slim. Even a little bit off changes
everything.

Where online did you buy them? Didn't they offer to mount the
bindings? I see there's an REI in St. Louis, but it doesn't look like
they sell or service skis. You might still ask, tho. Otherwise, you
could send them back to where you bought them, or up to one of the
shops in the midwest to have it done right. Then there's another idea
of the type I'm kind of prone to: call ahead and take a day trip up
to a shop in the Chicago area (or check the Quad Cities). There are
three REIs and some other shops there (google it), or maybe someone from
one of the local ski clubs will have a suggestion (x-c skiers love to
help) - http://www.a1trails.com/xc_ski/xcclmw.html. Conditions
allowing, you could even turn it into a ski trip -
http://www.a1trails.com/xc_ski/xc_il.html.

Gene



On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:21:19 -0800 (PST)
Meg wrote:

Hi. I have a question about the position to put bindings onto cross
country skis. I have never skied on cross country skiis, and only once
on downhill skis so I am a beginner. I realize there is some risk in
mounting your own bindings, but - they are only for fooling around in
the park across the street and I got them on clearance so they were
not that expensive and I'm willing to take the chance. I do, however,
want to learn as much as possible about this so I do the best job I
can.

I wanted to know if I am on the right track before I mount these.
They are the Rossignol Evo Glade AR skis - I am in St. Louis, and you
can't even buy cross country skis around here so I ordered them
online. Boots are Rossignol X2 Touring boots. The binding is the
Vision Classic Binding - Womens. I will be using them at a nearby
park with mostly flat and a few rolling hills, and fairly level rail
to trail bike trails. There are no groomed ski areas so I will be in
new snow, which we only get a few times a winter then it's gone.

There is a line across the ski that I understand is the balance point
(Think I'm remembering that name correctly) When I hold it in my hand
at that point up in the air, it stays level. I stood on the balance
board I have with my ski boots, and marked on my boot the location at
the center of the board, where I am the most stable when standing on
the balance board, so I'd consider this to be my center of gravity
with knees slightly bent. I thought to line that mark on the boot up
along the line on the ski, so my center of gravity is lined up with
the skis balance point and mount them there. Now the directions that
came with the bindings are a little hard to understand, but they
actually show a line as well, and appear to say to line up the line on
their template, with the line on the ski, which puts the binding
further back than I would mount them if I do them the way mentioned
above - I wondered if I should just go with their way, or somewhere in
between.

Thanks.

Meg in St. Louis

On Feb 24, 12:35*pm, wrote:
Meg,
* At the risk of delaying your skiing adventures, I strongly agree with
Paul on this one. *The chances of your getting it right without the jig
and the posidrive screw driver are slim. *Even a little bit off changes
everything.

*Where online did you buy them? Didn't they offer to mount the
bindings? *I see there's an REI in St. Louis, but it doesn't look like
they sell or service skis. You might still ask, tho. Otherwise, you
could send them back to where you bought them, or up to one of the
shops in the midwest to have it done right. *Then there's another idea
of the type I'm kind of prone to: call ahead and take a day trip up
to a shop in the Chicago area (or check the Quad Cities). There are
three REIs and some other shops there (google it), or maybe someone from
one of the local ski clubs will have a suggestion (x-c skiers love to
help) -http://www.a1trails.com/xc_ski/xcclmw.html. *Conditions
allowing, you could even turn it into a ski trip -http://www.a1trails.com/xc_ski/xc_il.html. *

Gene

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 05:21:19 -0800 (PST)



Meg wrote:
Hi. * I have a question about the position to put bindings onto cross
country skis. I have never skied on cross country skiis, and only once
on downhill skis so I am a beginner. I realize there is some risk in
mounting your own bindings, but - they are only for fooling around in
the park across the street and I got them on clearance so they were
not that expensive and I'm willing to take the chance. *I do, however,
want to learn as much as possible about this so I do the best job I
can.

I wanted to know if I am on the right track before I mount these.
They are the Rossignol Evo Glade AR skis - I am in St. Louis, and you
can't even buy cross country skis around here so I ordered them
online. * Boots are Rossignol X2 Touring boots. *The binding is the
Vision Classic Binding - Womens. *I will be using them at a nearby
park with mostly flat and a few rolling hills, and fairly level rail
to trail bike trails. There are no groomed ski areas so I will be in
new snow, which we only get a few times a winter then it's gone.

There is a line across the ski that I understand is the balance point
(Think I'm remembering that name correctly) When I hold it in my hand
at that point up in the air, it stays level. * I stood on the balance
board I have with my ski boots, and marked on my boot the location at
the center of the board, where I am the most stable when standing on
the balance board, so I'd consider this to be my center of gravity
with knees slightly bent. *I thought to line that mark on the boot up
along the line on the ski, so my center of gravity is lined up with
the skis balance point and mount them there. *Now the directions that
came with the bindings are a little hard to understand, but they
actually show a line as well, and appear to say to line up the line on
their template, with the line on the ski, which puts the binding
further back than I would mount them if I do them the way mentioned
above - I wondered if I should just go with their way, or somewhere in
between.

Thanks.

Meg in St. Louis- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is a ski shop that said they would do it - though they sell
downhill skis only - but they charge $50 - which I really hate to pay
for $100 skis, though altogether I paid $250 once you add up boots
etc. I may ask REI if they will mount and pay the $50. We vacation in
Door County Wisconsin and I could probably get them bound up there
this summer since people do cross country ski there - though I don't
know if it would be for less, and then I wouldn't get to use them at
all this Winter. It will be lucky if we even get more snow and I do
get to use them, but the prices were good and on sale this time of
year. There was a mixup and they were supposed to mount them but they
didn't. At the time I ordered them we had snow and I didn't want to
wait and send them back - but now it's all melted. It is kind of a
crazy idea in the first place but it's something I've always wanted to
try.

Meg,
At the risk of delaying your skiing adventures, I strongly agree with
Paul on this one. The chances of your getting it right are slim.

Where online did you buy them? Didn't they offer to mount the
bindings? I see there's an REI in St. Louis, but it doesn't look like
they sell or service skis. You might still ask, tho. Otherwise, you
could send them back to where you bought them, or up to one of the
shops in the midwest to have it done right. Then there's another idea
I might have done when first starting: call ahead and take a day trip
up to a shop in the Chicago area (or check the Quad Cities). There are
three REIs and some other shops there, or maybe someone from one of the
local ski clubs will have a suggestion -
http://www.a1trails.com/xc_ski/xcclmw.html. Conditions allowing, you
could even turn it into a ski trip -
http://www.a1trails.com/xc_ski/xc_il.html.

Gene


On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:05:01 -0600
"Norski" wrote:

Hi Meg,
Highly recommend you take your skis to a shop and have the
bindings installed. They only charge $10-15. There are a lot of
things you can do wrong. Like drilling too big of holes and have the
bindings come off, risking injury. You can also drill through the
bottom of the ski. Mounting the binding in the wrong position can
dramatically affect how the skis glides and more importantly the
control of the ski. Finally, it is just plain difficult to accurately
align the holes for the binding on the ski. The shops have a jig that
clamps on to the ski that they use to drill the holes. Believe me,
I've tried to do it myself and it is just not worth it. More than
likely, you'll try it anyway. So at your own risk, a couple of
suggestions. First off, you have located the balance point of the
ski. Good job. A more accurate way of finding it, is to put the ski
on top of a flat knife or screwdriver, rather than use your finger.
Typically, with NNN bindings, the pin slot (where your boot attaches)
of the binding lines up with the balance point of the ski or is
slightly behind. The binding slot is never ahead of the ski balance
point. So line up the binding slot and the ski balance point. From
there you need to drill the holes. Either use the paper template or
try using the binding itself as a guide. As I noted, it is very
difficult to accurately drill these holes. Usually hand drilled holes
end up with the binding mounted crooked on the ski. Make sure you use
the correct size drill bit and don't drill through the bottom of the
ski. Finally, you'll need a Posix type screw driver. It looks like a
Phillips head screw driver, but the tip is more rounded. A Phillips
screw driver will strip out the head of the screw. If you used the
correct size drill bit, you'll discover the screws are very difficult
to install, they are tight. Get it wrong and the screw holes will
strip out, wrecking the ski.

Hope this helps you ski in St. Louis. But if you can find any way
to have a shop do it, I'd recommend a shop.

--
Paul Haltvick
Bay Design and Build - LLC
Engineering, Construction
FSx - Fischer / Swix Racing


"Meg" wrote in message
...
Hi. I have a question about the position to put bindings onto
cross country skis. I have never skied on cross country skiis, and
only once on downhill skis so I am a beginner. I realize there is
some risk in mounting your own bindings, but - they are only for
fooling around in the park across the street and I got them on
clearance so they were not that expensive and I'm willing to take
the chance. I do, however, want to learn as much as possible about
this so I do the best job I can.

I wanted to know if I am on the right track before I mount these.
They are the Rossignol Evo Glade AR skis - I am in St. Louis, and
you can't even buy cross country skis around here so I ordered them
online. Boots are Rossignol X2 Touring boots. The binding is the
Vision Classic Binding - Womens. I will be using them at a nearby
park with mostly flat and a few rolling hills, and fairly level rail
to trail bike trails. There are no groomed ski areas so I will be in
new snow, which we only get a few times a winter then it's gone.

There is a line across the ski that I understand is the balance
point (Think I'm remembering that name correctly) When I hold it in
my hand at that point up in the air, it stays level. I stood on
the balance board I have with my ski boots, and marked on my boot
the location at the center of the board, where I am the most stable
when standing on the balance board, so I'd consider this to be my
center of gravity with knees slightly bent. I thought to line that
mark on the boot up along the line on the ski, so my center of
gravity is lined up with the skis balance point and mount them
there. Now the directions that came with the bindings are a little
hard to understand, but they actually show a line as well, and
appear to say to line up the line on their template, with the line
on the ski, which puts the binding further back than I would mount
them if I do them the way mentioned above - I wondered if I should
just go with their way, or somewhere in between.

Thanks.

Meg in St. Louis

(I just accidentally double posted my last post, so ignore it.)

Yes, $50 is way out of line. That shop that sold them should have paid
shipping both ways for having screwed up - it's not a small matter (I'd
be tempted to return them and go elsewhere in person, where I could be
fitted properly - Feb-March is a good time with sales). In any case,
hope you get a chance to use them before long. It might become
addicting...

Gene


On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:02:12 -0800 (PST)
Meg wrote:

There is a ski shop that said they would do it - though they sell
downhill skis only - but they charge $50 - which I really hate to pay
for $100 skis, though altogether I paid $250 once you add up boots
etc. I may ask REI if they will mount and pay the $50. We vacation in
Door County Wisconsin and I could probably get them bound up there
this summer since people do cross country ski there - though I don't
know if it would be for less, and then I wouldn't get to use them at
all this Winter. It will be lucky if we even get more snow and I do
get to use them, but the prices were good and on sale this time of
year. There was a mixup and they were supposed to mount them but they
didn't. At the time I ordered them we had snow and I didn't want to
wait and send them back - but now it's all melted. It is kind of a
crazy idea in the first place but it's something I've always wanted to
try.

Thank you for your messages and advice. The place I ordered, did
initially offer to let me ship them back, because they actually made
another mistake as well when I first ordered them, and told me the
wrong bindings to get, and said they would replace them with the right
ones, and mount them, and to double check that I got the right size
skis as well - since their online person had told me the wrong
information initially - that I could mount NIS bindings on non NIS
skis. I have decided to stop and do this correctly and sent them all
my information to verify I got the correct size, and have asked if I
could go ahead and send the skis and bindings back after all and have
them mount them correctly, and verify that I have the correct size
skis, before I drill holes myself and wreck them. It will take
longer, but we may get no more snow this winter after all anyway - but
I would be worse off with incorrectly sized, incorrectly mounted
bindings when I first get to use them next year and I've already had
them 8 months. I am a figures skater - and I would not try to mount
skate blades onto my expensive skates myself - I suppose this is not
really that different.

Thanks again.

On Feb 24, 1:31*pm, wrote:
(I just accidentally double posted my last post, so ignore it.)

Yes, $50 is way out of line. *That shop that sold them should have paid
shipping both ways for having screwed up - it's not a small matter (I'd
be tempted to return them and go elsewhere in person, where I could be
fitted properly - Feb-March is a good time with sales). *In any case,
hope you get a chance to use them before long. *It might become
addicting...

Gene

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:02:12 -0800 (PST)

Meg wrote:
There is a ski shop that said they would do it - though they sell
downhill skis only - but they charge $50 - which I really hate to pay
for $100 skis, though altogether I paid $250 once you add up boots
etc. I may ask REI if they will mount and pay the $50. *We vacation in
Door County Wisconsin and I could probably get them bound up there
this summer since people do cross country ski there - though I don't
know if it would be for less, and then I wouldn't get to use them at
all this Winter. It will be lucky if we even get more snow and I do
get to use them, but the prices were good and on sale this time of
year. *There was a mixup and they were supposed to mount them but they
didn't. *At the time I ordered them we had snow and I didn't want to
wait and send them back - but now it's all melted. *It is kind of a
crazy idea in the first place but it's something I've always wanted to
try.

Meg,

Sounds great.

Instructors (I'm one) usually tell new skiers to start with the
classical/diagonal striding style, i.e., what you're doing. However,
with experienced skaters (ice or land), we pose the idea of starting
with ski skating instead (you may have seen both at the Olympics). Most
adults need considerable acclimation to gliding on one ski, but
experienced skaters have already learned that and developed the muscles
to go along, so skating often makes a nice place to start. If you ever
get the chance...

Gene


On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:10:54 -0800 (PST)
Meg wrote:

Thank you for your messages and advice. The place I ordered, did
initially offer to let me ship them back, because they actually made
another mistake as well when I first ordered them, and told me the
wrong bindings to get, and said they would replace them with the right
ones, and mount them, and to double check that I got the right size
skis as well - since their online person had told me the wrong
information initially - that I could mount NIS bindings on non NIS
skis. I have decided to stop and do this correctly and sent them all
my information to verify I got the correct size, and have asked if I
could go ahead and send the skis and bindings back after all and have
them mount them correctly, and verify that I have the correct size
skis, before I drill holes myself and wreck them. It will take
longer, but we may get no more snow this winter after all anyway - but
I would be worse off with incorrectly sized, incorrectly mounted
bindings when I first get to use them next year and I've already had
them 8 months. I am a figures skater - and I would not try to mount
skate blades onto my expensive skates myself - I suppose this is not
really that different.

Thanks again.

On Feb 24, 1:31*pm, wrote:
(I just accidentally double posted my last post, so ignore it.)

Yes, $50 is way out of line. *That shop that sold them should have
paid shipping both ways for having screwed up - it's not a small
matter (I'd be tempted to return them and go elsewhere in person,
where I could be fitted properly - Feb-March is a good time with
sales). *In any case, hope you get a chance to use them before
long. *It might become addicting...

Gene

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:02:12 -0800 (PST)

Meg wrote:
There is a ski shop that said they would do it - though they sell
downhill skis only - but they charge $50 - which I really hate to
pay for $100 skis, though altogether I paid $250 once you add up
boots etc. I may ask REI if they will mount and pay the $50. *We
vacation in Door County Wisconsin and I could probably get them
bound up there this summer since people do cross country ski
there - though I don't know if it would be for less, and then I
wouldn't get to use them at all this Winter. It will be lucky if
we even get more snow and I do get to use them, but the prices
were good and on sale this time of year. *There was a mixup and
they were supposed to mount them but they didn't. *At the time I
ordered them we had snow and I didn't want to wait and send them
back - but now it's all melted. *It is kind of a crazy idea in
the first place but it's something I've always wanted to try.

True - it did seem like the skating style would be more natural to me
- and I've been watching to see what the difference is, but from what
I read, the skating style can only be done on well groomed trails -
and that the classic style was better for new snow - is that correct?

Meg

On Feb 24, 6:30*pm, wrote:
Meg,

* Sounds great.

* Instructors (I'm one) usually tell new skiers to start with the
classical/diagonal striding style, i.e., what you're doing. *However,
with experienced skaters (ice or land), we pose the idea of starting
with ski skating instead (you may have seen both at the Olympics). *Most
adults need considerable acclimation to gliding on one ski, but
experienced skaters have already learned that and developed the muscles
to go along, so skating often makes a nice place to start. *If you ever
get the chance...

Gene

Generally yes, especially if it fluffy or collapsing underneath foot.
But if once that snow settles and develops a layer of untrampled snow
that hardens underneath and is reasonbly firm on top (but not too icy),
then you might be able to pull it off. It doesn't take much depth
(often an inch or two will do). In the mountains, people go crust skate
skiing in the spring, where the snow goes through a melt-freeze cycle
most days.

Gene

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:35:53 -0800 (PST)
Meg wrote:

True - it did seem like the skating style would be more natural to me
- and I've been watching to see what the difference is, but from what
I read, the skating style can only be done on well groomed trails -
and that the classic style was better for new snow - is that correct?

Meg

On Feb 24, 6:30*pm, wrote:
Meg,

* Sounds great.

* Instructors (I'm one) usually tell new skiers to start with the
classical/diagonal striding style, i.e., what you're doing.
*However, with experienced skaters (ice or land), we pose the idea
of starting with ski skating instead (you may have seen both at the
Olympics). *Most adults need considerable acclimation to gliding on
one ski, but experienced skaters have already learned that and
developed the muscles to go along, so skating often makes a nice
place to start. *If you ever get the chance...

Gene