Cooked after 3-4 races

During that past few years, I've found that my best races are usually
#3 and 4 (into the season). Usually #5 I'm tired but ski ok, and I'm
cooked after that. This season was better. I did a race, skipped two
weeks of racing and then raced each weekend for 4 weeks and was really
tired on the 5th weekend.

I've always figured this was a lack of training and specificially high
HR training. Most of the summer I simply ride the bike and rarely
venture above oh, 160 bpm. Yeah, some climbs get me over that, but I
don't work on doing any intervals until Aug. I'd say from Aug through
the fall that I do some easy interval work (around my red-line or just
below) once or twice a week. I don't really don't do much race pace
work until the races.

During the winter, I pretty much keep my hours constant, but add some
racing on the weekends. Usually I do some long intervals (3 or 4 x 15
min) during the week.

So, not enough rest, not enough hard intervals, not enough
rollerskiing in the summer, take vacation in the winter?

Jay W

Hi Jay,

With criterium cyclists, I see that some seem to do really well for their
ability by just racing on the weekends, and taking it easy during the week.
Some commuting, the odd single longer ride on a Wednesday or Thursday, and
the next race they're strong again.
You might have a slower regenerating body now, for which ever reason. Very
friendly supplements such as D-Ribose can half or better your recovery time,
by offering the last ingredient for your body to start producing ATP. You
even notice it by your climbing towards the end of a race.
Friends of mine who are avid runners, noticed that they could increase their
training frequency thanks to DR, finding new progress because of that. And
you know the whole protein rap I'm sure.
You might try to devide your winter weeks in 4 blocks :
Sa+Su = races or high-intensity/duration training/tour
Mo+Tu = mellow 1-2 hour max cycling, maybe so light skiing just for
technique, low intensity
We+Th = room for training about as hard as you like once, hit them intevals!
Fr = rest or recovery only, cycling to unweigh the legs.

Especially with a full working week thrown in the mix, I notice my legs get
"lazy" in races if I don't chill enough. I used to require less recovery it
seems, but it pays off in races for me most of the time. Scheduling
alternating "on" and "off" days really works well for me and friends of ine
who've tried it.
Cutting down hours worked in your main season, in return for working extra
the off-season should really help too. Don't pro's do mostly 2 things : work
out and rest?

I'm sure you know this too, but HR's lower over the years. Trainings at HR
"x" like 5 years ago is deeper into the red one now...

Hope any of this helps or offers new insights,

J

"Bjorn A. Payne Diaz" schreef in bericht
oups.com...
During that past few years, I've found that my best races are usually
#3 and 4 (into the season). Usually #5 I'm tired but ski ok, and I'm
cooked after that. This season was better. I did a race, skipped two
weeks of racing and then raced each weekend for 4 weeks and was really
tired on the 5th weekend.

I've always figured this was a lack of training and specificially high
HR training. Most of the summer I simply ride the bike and rarely
venture above oh, 160 bpm. Yeah, some climbs get me over that, but I
don't work on doing any intervals until Aug. I'd say from Aug through
the fall that I do some easy interval work (around my red-line or just
below) once or twice a week. I don't really don't do much race pace
work until the races.

During the winter, I pretty much keep my hours constant, but add some
racing on the weekends. Usually I do some long intervals (3 or 4 x 15
min) during the week.

So, not enough rest, not enough hard intervals, not enough
rollerskiing in the summer, take vacation in the winter?

Jay W

On 16 Mar 2007 10:21:43 -0700, "Bjorn A. Payne Diaz"
wrote:

During the winter, I pretty much keep my hours constant, but add some
racing on the weekends. Usually I do some long intervals (3 or 4 x 15
min) during the week.

So, not enough rest, not enough hard intervals, not enough
rollerskiing in the summer, take vacation in the winter?

First thing to try is no intervals during the week after a weekend
that has racing.





--
JT
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On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 20:26:38 +0100, "Jan Gerrit Klok"
wrote:

You might try to devide your winter weeks in 4 blocks :
Sa+Su = races or high-intensity/duration training/tour
Mo+Tu = mellow 1-2 hour max cycling, maybe so light skiing just for
technique, low intensity
We+Th = room for training about as hard as you like once, hit them intevals!
Fr = rest or recovery only, cycling to unweigh the legs.

I agree with Jan's general comments (also from a cycling perspective)
but I am always shocked by people talking about 1-2 hour easy rides.
For me, the best thing to do when I need an easy ride is to ride just
barely enough to "activate" my body. That could mean as little as 15
minutes and not more than 30.

I would be better to spend the time saved (30-90 minutes) lying in bed
or doing something to reduce life stress. And for sure don't drive
when you can sleep or lie down, unless your mind is really wanting to
enjoy skiing. So if you can't ski (or bike) easily on a recovery day,
I think a short run or walk or nothing at all is better.

--
JT
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On Mar 16, 6:35 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 20:26:38 +0100, "Jan Gerrit Klok"

wrote:
You might try to devide your winter weeks in 4 blocks :
Sa+Su = races or high-intensity/duration training/tour
Mo+Tu = mellow 1-2 hour max cycling, maybe so light skiing just for
technique, low intensity
We+Th = room for training about as hard as you like once, hit them intevals!
Fr = rest or recovery only, cycling to unweigh the legs.

I agree with Jan's general comments (also from a cycling perspective)
but I am always shocked by people talking about 1-2 hour easy rides.
For me, the best thing to do when I need an easy ride is to ride just
barely enough to "activate" my body. That could mean as little as 15
minutes and not more than 30.

I would be better to spend the time saved (30-90 minutes) lying in bed
or doing something to reduce life stress. And for sure don't drive
when you can sleep or lie down, unless your mind is really wanting to
enjoy skiing. So if you can't ski (or bike) easily on a recovery day,
I think a short run or walk or nothing at all is better.

--
JT
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I would agree with JT. Skip the intervals during the week. They will
cook you for the weekend races when you are tired. I'm not a big time
cyclist, but I remember Greg Lemond saying active recovery on the bike
is sometimes the biggest mistake a rider can make when they should be
laying around in bed resting. Hope this helps

"John Forrest Tomlinson" schreef in bericht
...
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007 20:26:38 +0100, "Jan Gerrit Klok"
wrote:
I agree with Jan's general comments (also from a cycling perspective)
but I am always shocked by people talking about 1-2 hour easy rides.
For me, the best thing to do when I need an easy ride is to ride just
barely enough to "activate" my body. That could mean as little as 15
minutes and not more than 30.
I am the same really, and was just commenting based on the training volume
that Jay is apparently well capable of, and the level he seems to race at.
Myself, I've always been the laziest mountainbike racer as high up the
rankings as I've ever come across. My laziness may be allowing me to get the
very best from my low intesisity, short duration, barely-workouts. I
typically reach "decent" race performances from just taking my bike on the
10mi flatland commute to work. Just riding along, little fancy towards real
training. A couple months of that, with marginal sleep, and I feel
relatively "dangerous".

I wonder if Jay is including the whole picture---same with the
respondents.

A unique factor to consider in XC skiing in the Midwest where Jay
lives is our short ski time. It seems like we have 3 months, max. Two
months likely.

So I find that: #1, I want to ski every day we have snow, and #2, I
want to ski with some "zip" for max fun on my scarce snow.

This is a situation that leads me, and maybe others, to get tired in
the middle of our all-too-short ski season.

In fact, in my attempt to sort this all out, I've kind of given up my
racing in exchange for just skiing every day. I figured that race
weekends would accelerate burnout, so I dropped em, hoping to enjoy
more mid-zone hours. I don't ski a whole lot, just every day for an
hour or so (I don't have to drive more than a few minutes).

But my own trade-off still left me tired mid-season this year.

IMPT NOTE! --I didn't get sick this winter! This is a first, for me,
in maybe decades---and my first no-race winter! : ) (Also changed a
couple other factors... no cat, got a flu shot, took more supplements,
was more careful around snotty kids...)

Perhaps the meat of this question runs into the fact that middle-zone
3 pace is dreaded territory, but is also the most fun. So how can a
citizen ski with some zip and ski daily without burnout?

XC is a heavy-load sport, I think, due to arm/leg action, even when
using skilled, relaxed technique.

Also: this laying down stuff is probably really hard work for someone
interested in life. It's part of the pro sacrifice. I suspect that
citizen racers wouldn't do it even if they could. It's like faking
being dead. Ugh! The techniques of the pro are sometimes anti-life,
which adds to the difficulty of the *job* of being a pro.

I like the following burnout-avoidance suggestions, but I suspect
there's something more that can be done:

1* Supplements ---D-Ribose? May be fine, but sheesh why not use as
last resort. Eat healthy, use a few common aides, get good rest. I
used multi-Vit, cod-liver, garlique. Maybe be more religious about the
pre- and post- ski-outing refueling potions/gels?

2* Avoid race season intervals ---sounds good ---but I'm still going
to ski as much as I can as long as there's snow! and much will be at a
"good clip"---the dread middle zone.

3* Possible idea: do a few more long hikes, century rides, all-day
canoe outings in summer (and running and weights?) so that my beloved
Zone 3 hours during snow-time get transformed into Zone 2? How much
more training would I have to do to drop a "fun cruising speed" down
from Zone 3 to Zone 2? I recall Pete and others saying that the USST
can ski tons of easy hours at a pace that citizens would experience as
a whole zone higher. You have to be fit enough to ski a lot without
burnout, basically. (Maybe this relates to Lemond's remark about
Jrs.)

Whew! --JP

On Mar 20, 8:04 am, wrote:
I wonder if Jay is including the whole picture---same with the
respondents.

Well, I used to do mid-week intervals and the next day, a 2 hr easy
ski...and a third easy, maybe 60-75 min workout midweek. On weekends,
I would follow a Sat. race with a Sunday 3 hr ski. Man, I'm really
below that level now.

I think a big difference (other than getting old) is getting up at
5:15 am. My wife gets up slow, so she gets up early. I usually am
having some problems getting to sleep at 9:30 or 10 pm, so even though
I'm in the rack, I don't feel I'm getting enough sleep.

I certainly could use some improvements with my nutrition, and I don't
take any supplements (to replace what a nightly beer is removing).
Habits are hard to change.

The other big difference is the summer work. I used to work hard to
get in shape during the summer, and I'd rollerski all summer long. Now
I do neither. I think the "switch on" to getting in shape in Oct, Nov,
Dec, or (gasp) Jan (depending on procrastination) is just too much.
Also workouts now involve 60-75 min of driving (which is like making
the workout longer).

Jay W

On 20 Mar 2007 10:47:37 -0700, "Bjorn A. Payne Diaz"
wrote:

I used to do mid-week intervals and the next day, a 2 hr easy
ski...and a third easy, maybe 60-75 min workout midweek. On weekends,
I would follow a Sat. race with a Sunday 3 hr ski.
(snips)
Also workouts now involve 60-75 min of driving

I don't get the point f the third "easy" workout. Especially if
you're driving to it. If you need to work on technique, OK do it. Or
if you really enjoy it, then I guess it has value. Or if you're
really trying to rack up hours to maybe improve base fitness.

But once racing season comes around, that's over two hours that could
better be spent sleeping, or maybe stretching and doing massage or
something.
--
JT
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John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
On 20 Mar 2007 10:47:37 -0700, "Bjorn A. Payne Diaz"
wrote:

I used to do mid-week intervals and the next day, a 2 hr easy
ski...and a third easy, maybe 60-75 min workout midweek. On weekends,
I would follow a Sat. race with a Sunday 3 hr ski.
(snips)
Also workouts now involve 60-75 min of driving

I don't get the point f the third "easy" workout. Especially if
you're driving to it. If you need to work on technique, OK do it. Or
if you really enjoy it, then I guess it has value. Or if you're
really trying to rack up hours to maybe improve base fitness.

But once racing season comes around, that's over two hours that could
better be spent sleeping, or maybe stretching and doing massage or
something.
--
JT

To me, suggesting that an XC skier spend time during rare snow time
NOT skiing is the long season bike race mentality coming in, I think.
If there's snow on the ground and a few free hours, how many midwest
skiers are going to stretch or go to bed early?

As I said before, I like to get in as many ski outings each week
during snow season as I can, and I think most midwest skiers are
similar. Because we don't have very many ski-days and don't know when
it all might be over! Of course, if we DO get a good month, then we
end up tired! : ) If a whole week looks good weatherwise, that's
about as much confidence as one can have in the weather. The week
after that it really may well warm up or get weird somehow and the
skiing will be bad. Then one could rest. But we tend to go out even if
it's marginal---it all might be gone, so ski while ya can! ---Then
over a month of decent snow strings together, what good luck!, and
WE'RE TIRED...rats. Bad luck. So I think we need to consider the
"gotta ski every day" sentiment that many midwest skiers probably have
in recent years. I think the problem is getting fit enough ahead of
time to tolerate it. Also, there's the "too many medium workouts"
factor that I mentioned---again, perhaps cured by being more fit going
into the season so mediums turn into easies.

--JP