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  #61  
Old January 23rd 05, 07:14 AM
rosco
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pigo wrote:

"lal_truckee" wrote in message
...


I believe the resorts are short sighted, allowing boarding at all.
You think any of these doofusses will be dedicated boarders when
they're 40, 50, even 60? I bet a way lower percentage remain active
than skiers remain active. If there were no boarding allowed, a
fair percentage of current boarders would be skiers; I don't know
if the curves cross, but my feeling is long term the resorts would
have more patrons, not fewer.



This probably won't do anything for your argument but I agree with
you. It's the Brittany Spears of snow. Too teeny bopper and "trendy"
to ever have a chance to be classic. Let's hope so anyway.

What astounds me is that people are adamant that *all* resorts allow
toys. There's 4 in the US (probably the world) dedicated to skiing.
What's the big deal to them?

pigo


There's something I can agree with. I like the idea of having a place
that boarder can't ride. I get a kick out of telling Alta stories to my
boarder friends and then saying "sorry, I guess you'll never know unless
you get on some real gear".

RAC

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  #62  
Old January 23rd 05, 07:19 AM
rosco
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Bob wrote:

"lal_truckee" wrote in message
...


I believe the resorts are short sighted, allowing boarding at all. You
think any of these doofusses will be dedicated boarders when they're 40,
50, even 60? I bet a way lower percentage remain active than skiers
remain active. If there were no boarding allowed, a fair percentage of
current boarders would be skiers; I don't know if the curves cross, but
my feeling is long term the resorts would have more patrons, not fewer.



Sorry to trash your theory, but I am not the only one who took up boarding
when I was over 50. Remove your bigot blinders and you might start to see
the grey and white hair I see on boarders all the time. Many of them are
former skiers that decided they needed new challenges.

It's kind of sad to see all these poor abused skiers whine about how
oppressed they are by having to share the mountains. Get over it and grow
up.

The resorts build terrain parks because they know that snowboarders are
saving their butts from the declining popularity of skiing.

Bob


Sorry, Bob. Skiing is not declining in popularity. Skiing visits are
flat, but not in decline. The growth is in boarding (for now) and that
is one of the reasons why resorts cater to boarding via parks.

RAC

  #63  
Old January 23rd 05, 07:22 AM
rosco
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Mary Malmros wrote:

lal_truckee wrote:
[snip]

I believe the resorts are short sighted, allowing boarding at all. You
think any of these doofusses will be dedicated boarders when they're
40, 50, even 60? I bet a way lower percentage remain active than
skiers remain active.



Well, obviously it's too soon to tell -- there are very few people who
grew up with the sport and who are of an age to be bringing their kids
into it. In skiing you see a lot of multi-generational skiing families
-- by far, most of the kids I teach have at least one skiing parent (and
the large majority of those have _two_ skiing parents). It's also my
impression that their kids' involvement in the sport is strongly
connected with their parents' contining skiing (although I think as a
chicken-and-egg problem, it's kind of hard to sort out cause and effect).


Very astute of you, Mary. That is another reason for catering to
boarders via parks. Industry analysts call it the magnet market... get
the young snowboarders to come and the folks and baby brothers/sisters
will come too.

  #64  
Old January 23rd 05, 04:26 PM
snoig
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"rosco" wrote in message
...
Sorry, Bob. Skiing is not declining in popularity. Skiing visits are
flat, but not in decline. The growth is in boarding (for now) and that
is one of the reasons why resorts cater to boarding via parks.

RAC


Parks are not just for boarders these days. At Breck, you see as many
skiers in the park as boarders.

snoig


  #65  
Old January 23rd 05, 07:41 PM
Black Metal Martha
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rosco wrote:
pigo wrote:

"lal_truckee" wrote in message
...


I believe the resorts are short sighted, allowing boarding at all.
You think any of these doofusses will be dedicated boarders when
they're 40, 50, even 60? I bet a way lower percentage remain active


than skiers remain active. If there were no boarding allowed, a
fair percentage of current boarders would be skiers; I don't know
if the curves cross, but my feeling is long term the resorts would
have more patrons, not fewer.



This probably won't do anything for your argument but I agree with
you. It's the Brittany Spears of snow. Too teeny bopper and

"trendy"
to ever have a chance to be classic. Let's hope so anyway.

What astounds me is that people are adamant that *all* resorts

allow
toys. There's 4 in the US (probably the world) dedicated to skiing.


What's the big deal to them?

pigo


There's something I can agree with. I like the idea of having a

place
that boarder can't ride. I get a kick out of telling Alta stories to

my
boarder friends and then saying "sorry, I guess you'll never know

unless
you get on some real gear".

RAC


I was thinking about this while skiing yesterday. Why don't they just
have areas that are for boarders only? That way, they can run into each
other and not into us. Plus, the resort will make money off the little
trendiess.

Martha

  #66  
Old January 23rd 05, 07:49 PM
David Harris
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AstroPax wrote in
:

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:57:40 -0800, "Bob"
wrote:

But the family still has fun together.


Not on the slopes of Alta or DV.

Bwhaaahaaha !!! ;)

-Astro

---
AstroPax Photography
http://nikon.astropax.com
---



This is unfortunately true.

Unfortunate, in that Alta is one of the best places I've skied, but for
the past 6 years we've been going on family ski vacations with 2 other
families. Two of their kids (both girls, btw) have taken up boarding, so
Alta is a no-go for us.

Doesn't kill me, there are still plenty of excellent places to ski, but I
would love to go back to Alta. I suppose I could dump my friends, or get
them to dump their kids, but that's probably the wrong way to prioritize.

Two of the three boys have also tried boarding, as has one of the dads,
but it didn't stick for any of them. I suspect the dad will try again
this year, as he is a pretty good skier, and always looking for new
challenges. I'm not interested in trying - I'm not that athletic, and it
took me a LONG time to get good at skiing. I'm not interested in being
bad at something for the next 10 years.

If I had better balance and learned faster I would try it. I love to see
good boarders on a high speed carve on the groomed, or ripping up good
lines in trees, powder, pillows. Reminds me of windsurfing, another
sport that took a good decade to learn, but is great.

dh
  #67  
Old January 23rd 05, 08:20 PM
miles
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David Harris wrote:

Unfortunate, in that Alta is one of the best places I've skied, but for
the past 6 years we've been going on family ski vacations with 2 other
families. Two of their kids (both girls, btw) have taken up boarding, so
Alta is a no-go for us.


Drop them off at Snowbird and buy yourself a Alta/Snowbird combined
pass. Ski a little of each and meet up with them off and on during the day.
  #68  
Old January 23rd 05, 10:25 PM
pigo
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"Black Metal Martha" wrote in message
oups.com...

I was thinking about this while skiing yesterday. Why don't they
just
have areas that are for boarders only? That way, they can run into
each
other and not into us. Plus, the resort will make money off the
little
trendiess.


Because all of that talk about ski areas going broke without them is
bull****. They couldn't support an existing area let alone build one.
Plus I think a major part of the attraction is the trouble they can
cause.

pigo


  #69  
Old January 23rd 05, 10:38 PM
pigo
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Default


"David Harris" wrote in message
...
AstroPax wrote in
:

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 20:57:40 -0800, "Bob"

wrote:

But the family still has fun together.


Not on the slopes of Alta or DV.

Bwhaaahaaha !!! ;)

-Astro

---
AstroPax Photography
http://nikon.astropax.com
---



This is unfortunately true.


Unfortunate?

Unfortunate, in that Alta is one of the best places I've skied, but
for
the past 6 years we've been going on family ski vacations with 2
other
families. Two of their kids (both girls, btw) have taken up
boarding, so
Alta is a no-go for us.


Doesn't kill me, there are still plenty of excellent places to ski,
but I
would love to go back to Alta. I suppose I could dump my friends,
or get
them to dump their kids, but that's probably the wrong way to
prioritize.


So some odd hundreds of places to board isn't enough for you? *With*
boarders Alta wouldn't be worth skiing. Nowhere is imo.

Are you guys surgically connected or something? When I go on any kind
of vacation with anyone there is always some choosing seperate things
to do. Even with my wife.

Two of the three boys have also tried boarding, as has one of the
dads,
but it didn't stick for any of them. I suspect the dad will try
again
this year, as he is a pretty good skier, and always looking for new
challenges. I'm not interested in trying - I'm not that athletic,
and it
took me a LONG time to get good at skiing. I'm not interested in
being
bad at something for the next 10 years.


I don't think you have to worry about that. It's a culture where the
worse you are, the "better" you are. Plus there's only a couple a
years between beginner and olympian.

If I had better balance and learned faster I would try it. I love
to see
good boarders on a high speed carve on the groomed, or ripping up
good
lines in trees, powder, pillows. Reminds me of windsurfing,
another
sport that took a good decade to learn, but is great.


Good line? I've never seen any snowboarder do anything besides go
across the hill. If by good line you mean straight down, I could
train a stump to do that.

I can't comment much on windsurfing. I've only done it a couple of
times but it was fun. How do you suppose boaters in general and real
sailors in specific would react if windsurfers didn't obey the "rules
of the road" or actively flaunted them just to be annoying?

pigo


  #70  
Old January 23rd 05, 10:51 PM
ttalb
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Posts: n/a
Default


I believe the resorts are short sighted, allowing boarding at all.
You think any of these doofusses will be dedicated boarders when
they're 40, 50, even 60? I bet a way lower percentage remain active


than skiers remain active. If there were no boarding allowed, a
fair percentage of current boarders would be skiers; I don't know
if the curves cross, but my feeling is long term the resorts would
have more patrons, not fewer.



There's something I can agree with. I like the idea of having a

place
that boarder can't ride. I get a kick out of telling Alta stories to

my
boarder friends and then saying "sorry, I guess you'll never know

unless
you get on some real gear".

RAC


snip

I was thinking about this while skiing yesterday. Why don't they just
have areas that are for boarders only? That way, they can run into each
other and not into us. Plus, the resort will make money off the little
trendiess.

Martha


Martha,

Unluckily the "trend" is that in the last ten years the industry has lost
40% of skiers (10.5 M vs 6.8M today) and boarding has increased 350% (1.8M
vs 6.3M today). Twenty years ago there were about 13M skiers and no
boarders - today pretty much the same number so you could argue no growth in
the industry. New numbers from National Sporting Goods Association should be
out soon for this year. I don't have access to to the Ski Area Association
info anymore, but if I remember correctly boarders were on the snow more
days/per year than skiers as well. In addition, it had some numbers on
crossovers - skiers who also board and boarders who also ski but it ends up
with about a 50/50 skier/boarder ratio today.

In theory all the skiers who prefer not to have boarders around (AstroPax
and pigo) should really pump up the DV's and Alta's to huge numbers.
However, as AstroPax can tell you Alta lost numbers last year and is down
this year as well (which I am sure he loves for turning more loops with no
one around!). How many people do you know or helped pick up skiing this
year?

My big worry is with a zero growth in numbers of participants and the amount
of $$ being plowed into resorts (I know most of it is real estate based
now). Will the non "destination" resorts be able to make it into the next
ten years?



 




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