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#11
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XC ski center: viable business?
On Dec 2, 6:16*pm, "
wrote: As a spin-off of the thread on Salmon Hills, purely out of curiosity, - is running a XC ski center a viable *business model at all? What % of XC ski start-ups make it through the first ~5 years? The 2 places I've skied at (and love skiing at) that on the surface looked like successful businesses are Royal Gorge, CA (which rumors say was supposed to have been sold to a housing developer had it not been for the current housing crisis) and Lapland Lake, NY. Another thing - for XC areas, doesn't the money flow in mostly (~90%?) on weekends, and of those weekends mostly during the Christmas break? While the 1-2 people who show up on a weekday/non-holiday still expect the trails to be groomed, the hut and the food warm, and the parking lot snow-plowed? |
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#12
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XC ski center: viable business?
Though the numbers aren't extraordinary, Christmas break is usually
more continually busy over a period of time, while February president's weekend gets highest paid admissions. MLK weekend gets some too. The most numbers show on the free day. Gene On Fri, 4 Dec 2009 13:51:30 -0800 (PST) " wrote: Another thing - for XC areas, doesn't the money flow in mostly (~90%?) on weekends, and of those weekends mostly during the Christmas break? While the 1-2 people who show up on a weekday/non-holiday still expect the trails to be groomed, the hut and the food warm, and the parking lot snow-plowed? |
#13
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XC ski center: viable business?
That said, I noticed an immediate drop in grooming after the sale. AFAICT they operate only a single groomer at a time, now. There are several trails that were never groomed the last season or two and I doubt will be ever again. There also appears to have been a 100% turnover of the staff *post sale. The new crew isn't bad, but it seems the "aussie pipeline" is no longer I actually like the new manager and her crew way better. Very friendly and respectable. I have also noticed the drop in grooming. They probably now groom ~25% of their claimed 300 k of trails. But realistically, I think 95% of people who visit RG ski ~15K a day. I usually ski 30-50K per visit, and I do not feel limited by the fewer ks groomed. I wonder if area design based on higher density of trails is generally more "sustainable" - both economically and environmentally. At Lapland Lake, the whole area is quite small in area compared to other places I've been to, but still seems "big" in terms of ks to ski, since their trails are very windy, using every acre on the property. Since you are in the woods most of the time you don't notice that you are essentially skiing past the same pine tree a dozen times. I suppose, it's much easier to manage and groom, less tax, probably, too. |
#14
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XC ski center: viable business?
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#15
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XC ski center: viable business?
Meanwhile, I notice, in the Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten, an
article that says (as best I can tell from my minimal reading ability in the Norwegian language) that some places in Sweden are actually about to start charging for the use of groomed trails: http://www.aftenposten.no/pengenedin...cle3410771.ece |
#16
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XC ski center: viable business?
On Dec 7, 2:58*pm, Lew Lasher wrote:
Meanwhile, I notice, in the Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten, an article that says (as best I can tell from my minimal reading ability in the Norwegian language) that some places in Sweden are actually about to start charging for the use of groomed trails: http://www.aftenposten.no/pengenedin...cle3410771.ece where I grew up "grooming" was done by skiers themselves by skating/ classic skiing the same trail over and over again. Naturally, skiing at those "groomed" trails was free. The grooming was pretty good, but depended on the popularity of the trail. Also, the trails just wide enough to accommodate one skier, and normally would be ~10K long at most, so you would have to ski the same loop ~3-5 times to get a decent workout. Also, the snowfall was gradual and consistent, like, we would never get more than ~6" at a time, never 12-24" dumps in one night. I guess if I ever have my own ski area I will keep this self- grooming method in mind. And I would not try this method in the Sierras: skating over 2 feet of fresh stuff would be a bummer. |
#17
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XC ski center: viable business?
On Dec 8, 12:58*am, Lew Lasher wrote:
Meanwhile, I notice, in the Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten, an article that says (as best I can tell from my minimal reading ability in the Norwegian language) that some places in Sweden are actually about to start charging for the use of groomed trails: http://www.aftenposten.no/pengenedin...cle3410771.ece In Funäsdalen the annual cost of preparing and maintaining 300 km of tracks is about 3 million SEK. The price of a one-day pass is 60 SEK, a weekly 250 SEK and a winter pass 850 SEK (or 660 if you purchase yours before Dec 1st). Children under 15 do not need a pass. (Neither do the inhabitants of the municipality.) It would appear that there is 1) a strong opinion both for and against among the XC skiing population, and 2) a sizeable legal grey area whether such fees are compatible with the "allemansrätt" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam#Sweden and therefore everyone is rather eagerly awaiting forthcoming decisions from the county administrative court and the Swedish EPA. Anders |
#18
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XC ski center: viable business?
In Funäsdalen the annual cost of preparing and maintaining 300 km of tracks is about 3 million SEK. is about 3 million SEK So it's ~$420,000 for 300K of trail. Where did this number come from, do you have the source? Is it the cost of fuel, and groomer/trail maintenance, and groomers' salary, while the land is municipal, i.e. no rent/lease involved? Also, I bet the price does not scale down with the trail length linearly. I.e. 30K of trail would not be $420,000 divided by 10. |
#19
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XC ski center: viable business?
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#20
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XC ski center: viable business?
On Dec 9, 10:50*pm, "
wrote: So it's ~$420,000 for 300K of trail. Where did this number come from, do you have the source? Is it the cost of fuel, and groomer/trail maintenance, and groomers' salary, while the land is municipal, i.e. no rent/lease involved? Also, I bet the price does not scale down with the trail length linearly. I.e. 30K of trail would not be $420,000 divided by 10. The numbers come from http://www.funasdalen.com/index.php?...4&I temid=449 Is is first said that it is a lot of money and that it is spent on "clearing and preparing tracks and setting up signs", but later in the text it is said that "apart from the cost of grooming, there is maintenance, huts, bridges, signs, maps and lease to land owners that must be financed" and that it all comes to three million per year I would indeed imagine that most of the land is indeed municipal (and/ or state-owned, which is why the Swedish Environment Protection Agency would come in with some say in whether track fees are okay or not) and that the rent is "negotiable" (due to the jobs and increased tax revenue etc). The cost of one hour of grooming - one man, one machine, salary, social security fees, fuel, maintenance and depreciation all included, I suppose - is given as 900 SEK. Anders |
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