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What's the secret to long glide with poles?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 7th 08, 01:40 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Larry
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Posts: 65
Default What's the secret to long glide with poles?

Heeding advice of the masters, I do at least one pole-less rollerski
session per weekend in addition to skiing with poles. Turns out, I
actually enjoy pole-less much more - I don't get tired as quickly and
my rythm and balance are way better without poles, especially when I
have both of my hands behind my back. When I try to imitate poling,
glide disappears, balance is all over the place and there's no rythm
to speak of. Also, all of a sudden there's this creep towards the
toilet seat posture. When I go out with poles, it doesn't feel as
awful but still worse than when I keep my hands still. So: how do I
learn to ski with poles?

Just thought of another question: let's say I'm doing a fairly
leisurely V2-alt on a flat surface. If I'm trying to maximize the
glide, what are my arms supposed to do while I'm still gliding? I find
myself in an awkward pause with my arms kind of hanging down and
waiting before going into the next cycle. It doesn't seem right to
stop the glide just to give my arms something to do. Ideas?

Many thanks!
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  #2  
Old August 7th 08, 03:07 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
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Posts: 572
Default What's the secret to long glide with poles?

If you're trying to maximize the glide, which is a good exercise
but breaks the natural speed rhythm, your arms will be idle for a
moment. On the poling side, they should have been brought forward, up
high, readied for the next dp. On the free glide side they'll hang
back extended naturally in dp glide position until they need to come
forward in time with the next skate off and poling. This should all be
pretty instinctive, which leads me to wonder if your no-pole imitation
problem has to do with either timing and/or arm/hand placement when
poling. The latter would be extending out too far, which could throw
off the rhythm (delay the poling motion) and would definitely force the
butt back (counterbalance).

Rather than try to explain all this in detail blind, first take a
look at some of the skate videos suggested in the recent thread,
"Internet sources on skate technique."

Gene


Larry wrote:

Heeding advice of the masters, I do at least one pole-less rollerski
session per weekend in addition to skiing with poles. Turns out, I
actually enjoy pole-less much more - I don't get tired as quickly and
my rythm and balance are way better without poles, especially when I
have both of my hands behind my back. When I try to imitate poling,
glide disappears, balance is all over the place and there's no rythm
to speak of. Also, all of a sudden there's this creep towards the
toilet seat posture. When I go out with poles, it doesn't feel as
awful but still worse than when I keep my hands still. So: how do I
learn to ski with poles?

Just thought of another question: let's say I'm doing a fairly
leisurely V2-alt on a flat surface. If I'm trying to maximize the
glide, what are my arms supposed to do while I'm still gliding? I find
myself in an awkward pause with my arms kind of hanging down and
waiting before going into the next cycle. It doesn't seem right to
stop the glide just to give my arms something to do. Ideas?

Many thanks!

  #3  
Old August 14th 08, 01:42 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Larry
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Posts: 65
Default What's the secret to long glide with poles?

Thanks Gene. I'll check those out.
  #4  
Old August 15th 08, 03:18 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
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Posts: 327
Default What's the secret to long glide with poles?

On Aug 6, 6:40 pm, Larry wrote:
Heeding advice of the masters, I do at least one pole-less rollerski
session per weekend in addition to skiing with poles. Turns out, I
actually enjoy pole-less much more - I don't get tired as quickly and
my rythm and balance are way better without poles, especially when I
have both of my hands behind my back. When I try to imitate poling,
glide disappears, balance is all over the place and there's no rythm
to speak of. Also, all of a sudden there's this creep towards the
toilet seat posture. When I go out with poles, it doesn't feel as
awful but still worse than when I keep my hands still. So: how do I
learn to ski with poles?

Just thought of another question: let's say I'm doing a fairly
leisurely V2-alt on a flat surface. If I'm trying to maximize the
glide, what are my arms supposed to do while I'm still gliding? I find
myself in an awkward pause with my arms kind of hanging down and
waiting before going into the next cycle. It doesn't seem right to
stop the glide just to give my arms something to do. Ideas?

Many thanks!


When I practice (or when I used to practice) the glide with poles I
just keep the poles under my arms.
  #5  
Old August 17th 08, 02:24 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Gunde
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Posts: 44
Default What's the secret to long glide with poles?

On Aug 6, 7:40*pm, Larry wrote:
Heeding advice of the masters, I do at least one pole-less rollerski
session per weekend in addition to skiing with poles. Turns out, I
actually enjoy pole-less much more - I don't get tired as quickly and
my rythm and balance are way better without poles, especially when I
have both of my hands behind my back. When I try to imitate poling,
glide disappears, balance is all over the place and there's no rythm
to speak of. Also, all of a sudden there's this creep towards the
toilet seat posture. When I go out with poles, it doesn't feel as
awful but still worse than when I keep my hands still. So: how do I
learn to ski with poles?

Just thought of another question: let's say I'm doing a fairly
leisurely V2-alt on a flat surface. If I'm trying to maximize the
glide, what are my arms supposed to do while I'm still gliding? I find
myself in an awkward pause with my arms kind of hanging down and
waiting before going into the next cycle. It doesn't seem right to
stop the glide just to give my arms something to do. Ideas?

Many thanks!


Hi Larry,

Your questions just raise more questions in my mind.
Your 'creep towards the toilet seat posture' makes me wonder if your
poles are too long? Off the rollerskis, if they are up at or above
your mouth, they may be too long, forcing your body position back as
you plant them. In my limited experience, it is better (more powerful
and balanced) to be able to get over the top of your poles, with a
natural forward lean that emanates at the ankles, not the waist.
Strive to have your arms do a natural pendulum swing in all of your
gears, V1 V2 V2alternate. The timing and rhythm of your arm swing is
tied directly to the timing and rhythm of your leg skate. The videos
mentioned elsewhere will help you visualize this timing.
That said, an exercise where you are trying to maximize your glide is
great for balance. Then pull your poles into a tuck position under
your upper arms. But of course maximizing long glide is not the most
efficient way to ski, as long glide is a decelerating activity. A
natural dynamic glide as your body repositions and reloads to power
again is the most efficient way to ski.
My thoughts anyway.
  #6  
Old August 17th 08, 04:41 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Gunde
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Posts: 44
Default What's the secret to long glide with poles?


Here are some technique sites I have listed befo
http://www.roberts-1.com/xcski/skate...n/v2/index.htm
http://www.nordicskiracer.com/trainingtechnique.asp

and these are technique videos I like:
http://gear-west.stores.yahoo.net/newsiseofsk.html
http://gear-west.stores.yahoo.net/uscrtefu.html
http://gear-west.stores.yahoo.net/nosktedvd.html


  #7  
Old August 17th 08, 06:53 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
[email protected]
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Posts: 572
Default What's the secret to long glide with poles?

Gunde raises some a good general point about pole length, tho I
think he missed that the question is actually about skiing poleless.
I would be careful with xczone video he lists. These Canadians are
die-hard proponents of the so-called "new skate," which represents a
very North American idea about skate technique, and one that has not
been adopted at the top levels of world cup skiing in Europe. Depending
on your interest and finances, I'd recommend the Perfect Skating video
with text: http://www.perfectskating.com/test/frameset.htm. It not only
breaks down skate instruction and demonstration clearly, but also has
lots of good exercises that can be done on snow or rollerskis.

Gene



Gunde wrote:

Hi Larry,

Your questions just raise more questions in my mind.
Your 'creep towards the toilet seat posture' makes me wonder if your
poles are too long? Off the rollerskis, if they are up at or above
your mouth, they may be too long, forcing your body position back as
you plant them. In my limited experience, it is better (more powerful
and balanced) to be able to get over the top of your poles, with a
natural forward lean that emanates at the ankles, not the waist.
Strive to have your arms do a natural pendulum swing in all of your
gears, V1 V2 V2alternate. The timing and rhythm of your arm swing is
tied directly to the timing and rhythm of your leg skate. The videos
mentioned elsewhere will help you visualize this timing.
That said, an exercise where you are trying to maximize your glide is
great for balance. Then pull your poles into a tuck position under
your upper arms. But of course maximizing long glide is not the most
efficient way to ski, as long glide is a decelerating activity. A
natural dynamic glide as your body repositions and reloads to power
again is the most efficient way to ski.
My thoughts anyway.

  #8  
Old August 24th 08, 11:36 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Jim Whalen NULL
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Posts: 14
Default What's the secret to long glide with poles?

On Aug 17, 12:41*pm, Gunde wrote:
Here are some technique sites I have listed befohttp://www.roberts-1.com/xcski/skate...gtechnique.asp

and these are technique videos I like:http://gear-west.stores.yahoo.net/ne...nosktedvd.html


Hey Gunde, you seem like a knowledgable person - what would you
recommend as a video training tool for a CLASSIC skier? I suppose I am
"intermediate" - I've been skiing a long time, but am almost
completely self-taught. I am now doing marathons, and want to make
sure my form is efficient.
  #9  
Old August 25th 08, 05:43 PM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Gunde
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 44
Default What's the secret to long glide with poles?

On Aug 24, 5:36*pm, Jim Whalen NULL wrote:
On Aug 17, 12:41*pm, Gunde wrote:

Here are some technique sites I have listed befohttp://www.roberts-1..com/xcski/skat...mhttp://www.no...


and these are technique videos I like:http://gear-west.stores.yahoo.net/ne...//gear-west.st...


Hey Gunde, you seem like a knowledgable person - what would you
recommend as a video training tool for a CLASSIC skier? I suppose I am
"intermediate" - I've been skiing a long time, but am almost
completely self-taught. *I am now doing marathons, and want to make
sure my form is efficient.


Jim,

Thus is the nature of internet chat groups that a 52yr old mediocre
skier can seem knowledgable! I too am almost completely self-taught.
I have grown to love classic technique, but am still a long way from
perfection. In the pursuit of self-teaching, I like these videos:
Lee Borowski's: http://gear-west.stores.yahoo.net/newsiseofst.html
and the US ski team's: http://gear-west.stores.yahoo.net/uscrtefu.html

Maybe others can chime in.
 




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