why hardboots?

The recreational skier isn't putting on a pair of twin-tips and hitting the
park, why should that be the marketing focus for recreational riders?

Aren't they, these days? At least younger recreational skiers? They're all
over the parks that I see, hell, one day I saw a guy who must've been retired
in the park on snowblades. Granted, he wasn't hitting anything, but...

Neil Gendzwill wrote in message ...
Arvin Chang wrote:

Are you saying that you think complete beginner will choose chose
alpine setups over freestyle setups when presented the option. Or are
you claiming that a beginner/intermediate snowboarder (most common
level of ability) would jump at the chance to switch to alpine setups
when told about their advantages and disadvantages.

Neither. I'm saying that a stiffer setup and more forward angles would
help most people ride better for what they do. Hard or soft doesn't
matter to me, I just don't buy a freestyle board, flexy boots and duck
stance for the recreational rider. There's no reason to ride straight

I would agree with that. I personally recommend stiffer freeride
boards over freestyle models and stiffer boots. Also I can see the
wisdom in starting out beginners with like a 25/10 stance instead of
something like a 15/-15 stance. I actually found out that the
instructors at my local mountain have stopped encouraging "falling
leaf" technique for beginners, opting to get them to link turns on
their primary direction (regular or goofy) earlier on and I can see
the reasoning behind it as too many people side-slip down the entire
mountain.

stances unless you want to ride switch. All they do for recreational
riders is make it easier to skid down the hill on their heels. The
recreational skier isn't putting on a pair of twin-tips and hitting the
park, why should that be the marketing focus for recreational riders?
Ski magazines are full of tips for skiers to learn how to turn better
and handle mountain conditions better. Why do snowboarding magazines
have tips on how to do a rodeo 5?

How many snowboard magazines are there? Transworld? Snowboarder?
Transworld is geared towards freestylers and there is nothing wrong
with that - although I've found the explanations for tricks somewhat
lack in non-obvious information... like the description for a 540 is
"approach jump, bend knees, spin 360, spot landing, spin final 180,
and land."

Transworld caters to freestylers who are willing to pay for a magazine
with more "attitude" and advertisments than content. But you ask why
isn't there a magazine for recreational snowboarders. I think that
there just aren't enough people to support such a magazine. Most
people don't really think about improving their snowboarding skills
just like most people don't bother to improve their driving skills -
so long as they can get from point A to point B without crashing, they
are satisfied. Hence they feel little need to pay for such information
and education - why pay $30 a year for a magazine that talks about a
activity that you do 4-5 times a year? (note I don't agree with this
viewpointbut I see it as a common one).

So in reference to the original subtopic... Why are magazines,
equipment, and advertising so shifted towards freestyle instead of
freeride or freecarve? My belief is that's where the money is for
snowboard resorts and companies.

"Mike T" mtovino@ wrote

What would be
the preferred brand for really really skinny feet and ankles?

Raichle/Deeluxe is good for a narrow fit.

I got really frugal and just bought these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...EBWN%3AIT&rd=1
(if the link is broken up it's item 3666277572, new Oxygen Spectrum 27.5 snowboard hard boot, $107).

I also just bought ThirtyTwo TM-One boots (their stiffest high-end model) with
Intuition liners, so I plan to re-mold my existing liners to those Spectrum boots
and use TM-One for softboot riding (couldn't resist, price was too good to pass up).

Now I'm curious what the hell is going on with plate bindings and standards.
There are a couple of listings on eBay for old Burton plates (I gather they're
pretty crappy), and it also looks like they're somewhat proprietary and I'm
not sure they'll fit my boots. There's a mention about some sort of heel modification
to Intec standard, what's up with that?

Basically, I need some reasonably frugal way to try plate bindings ($270 for new
Catec or TD2 is too steep and just not worth it for me now). Any recommendations
given that boots are a done deal?

TIA!

--
Dmitry

"Mike T" wrote

laying trenches on a GS board down two bowl or the Face at MHM when it's no
hero snow is enough to impress me. Those trails are never groomed on Hero
Snow days so they are too steep for me right now

I haven't been to Timberline or Meadows yet, could you compare that run
with something on Stevens, Baker, Crystal, Blackomb, Whistler, Squaw,
Alpine Meadows, Kirkwood, Heavenly, or Northstar?

I bet I'm no better a rider than you are Dmitry, we're probably just better
at different things. I *suck suck suck suck* at the halfpipe for example.

Well, I've never ever tried park or pipe, so I guess this qualifies
me as the most sucking pipe rider. Basically all I do is try to keep
up with my friends who are really good and extreme skiers (instructors
and just plain kick-ass athletes), which by the end of the season I'm
pretty good at, maybe even sometimes (not too often) better than they are.

that it seems like equipment that is good for riding more extreme terrain
is not very good for carving

You're right about the equipment being more specific. Many hard-booters
bring more than one board to the mountain. I usually ride my GS board in
the AM, and then if I stick around after lunch time, go to an all-mountain
alpine board. On powder days I do the all-mtn board all day or ride
softies.

Ok, so then this is just a question of what you want to do most and what
compromises you're willing to take.

How hopeless are you on GS board in moguls? Powder? Steeps (40 degrees)?

One of my friends I ride whith is using these Head Monster 103 Pro skis
(a ski with 103mm waist, 193cm length, 41m sidecut - basically, it's just
a chopped off piece of railroad rail 8), and he can do crud, moguls,
groomers, steeps - almost everythihg just fine on these. But he's a
monster himself as far as raw muscle power goes. I'm wondering if that
kind of universal "I can do it no problemo" board look like - maybe
something like a big stiff BX board?

"Arvin Chang" wrote

Steep icy groomers don't exist. Snowcat won't go up a slope of 50 degrees.
If you've seen some, please LMK where, I'd be very much interested.

I use google to read the newsgroup and it doesn't always show me all
the posts so I don't know if someone told you this yet... so
anyways... many resorts groomed steeps by having their Snowcats
lowered down with a winch. It's kind scary to think about it, but I've
seen it done.

Ouch. I'd pay just to see that!! Not even talking about riding that. What resort?

"Neil Gendzwill" wrote

don't have to go to a narrower waist, but you should absolutely go to
steeper angles. Unless you're already at 30 plus in softies.

But.. Why? To be able to ride with the shoulders pointing downhill?

Partly, although I don't point my shoulders downhill, they're lined up
with my binding angles - straight downhill would be too rotated. A more
forward-facing stance is a big advantage anytime you want to make tight,
quick turns, like on a bump run. It lets you do more with just your
legs without having to involve your whole upper body.

Not sure if I can agree. In both cases your neand and your ass are going
along some smooth line downhill and your legs are jerking back and forth,
right? The big difference is that with high angle stance it's harder to
bend because the ass-legs joint is not very good at bending sideways.
(even though it's a ball joint

Another advantage is to be able to get your ass to pressure the edge on
a heelside. If you ride flat angles, toesides are OK but on heelside
you have your ass hanging off the side. We call this "sitting on the
toilet". With higher angles, you get your butt more over the edge which
means your bodyweight is pressuring the edge more, thus you trench better.

That I can see. Yeah, this is definitely an advantage.

I believe you already saw Jason's post on the responsiveness and power
hardboots bring to your riding. That was a big reason why I switched -
I could never get my softies to work responsively enough, and my feet
were killing me from having the straps as tight as I wanted. I suspect
modern softboot setups are much better, I haven't ridden softies since
around 1990. But people like Jason tell me that it hasn't changed so
much that I'm tempted to go back.

Ok, so do you think that a setup with hard boots and a board like a Donek
Axis is an ultimate all-mountain riding tool? Just asking for your personal
preference/opinion.

I use google to read the newsgroup and it doesn't always show me all
the posts so I don't know if someone told you this yet... so
anyways... many resorts groomed steeps by having their Snowcats
lowered down with a winch. It's kind scary to think about it, but I've
seen it done.

Ouch. I'd pay just to see that!! Not even talking about riding that.
What resort?

Mt Hood Meadows for one...

Four Bowl, and Twilight / Memorial Bowl on Lower Heather.

I haven't been to Timberline or Meadows yet, could you compare that run
with something on Stevens, Baker, Crystal, Blackomb, Whistler, Squaw,
Alpine Meadows, Kirkwood, Heavenly, or Northstar?

Hmmm..... think Siberia Bowl face only not groomed as wide.

How hopeless are you on GS board in moguls? Powder? Steeps (40
degrees)?

I havben't tried a true GS board in any of the above, I got my first one in
January and now I'm on the shelf with a sprained ankle. Will try powder
next time I get the chance.

I'm wondering if that
kind of universal "I can do it no problemo" board look like - maybe
something like a big stiff BX board?


In hard boots, a "universal" board would be an all-mountain alpine such as a
Donek Axis, Coiler All-Mtn, or Prior 4x4. I have the Axis 172 and I ride
it in bumps, steeps, powder, you name it. I certainly do better in packed
bumps and trees on a softie setup but on powder and steeps, my hard-boot
abilities are almost caught up to my soft boot abilities.

Yeah, it's kind of like a stiff, slightly narrower BX board.

"Mike T" wrote

anyways... many resorts groomed steeps by having their Snowcats
lowered down with a winch.

Ouch. I'd pay just to see that!! Not even talking about riding that.
What resort?

Mt Hood Meadows for one...
Four Bowl, and Twilight / Memorial Bowl on Lower Heather.

Ok, this gives some more reasons to drive there and maybe camp out
for a night on weekend. When do they usually close Meadows for the
season?

On 15 Mar 2004 20:06:22 -0800, Arvin Chang said (and I quote):
Neil Gendzwill wrote in message ...
Arvin Chang wrote:

Are you saying that you think complete beginner will choose chose
alpine setups over freestyle setups when presented the option. Or are
you claiming that a beginner/intermediate snowboarder (most common
level of ability) would jump at the chance to switch to alpine setups
when told about their advantages and disadvantages.

Neither. I'm saying that a stiffer setup and more forward angles would
help most people ride better for what they do. Hard or soft doesn't
matter to me, I just don't buy a freestyle board, flexy boots and duck
stance for the recreational rider. There's no reason to ride straight

I would agree with that. I personally recommend stiffer freeride
boards over freestyle models and stiffer boots. Also I can see the
wisdom in starting out beginners with like a 25/10 stance instead of
something like a 15/-15 stance.

I'd like to see a wider range of hard boots, extending down to a
softness that approaches current soft boots. Why? The boot/binding
interface is *so* much better with hard boots - you get step-ins that
work, and even the non-step-ins are quick, easy, reliable, and have a
reproducible fit. It just makes more sense for hard boots to extend in
softness down to soft boots, rather than soft boots trying to get as
stiff as hard boots.

I think hard boots *used* to exist in this niche, and they were used
with all-mountain boards at shallow(ish) angles of around 20 to 45
degrees. But this sort of setup fell out of favour. Why? I really
think it was largely fashion - the original "new school" took up
snowboarding as "skateboarding-on-snow", and set themselves up in
opposition to anything that resembled skiing.

It was a major trend, and every manufacturer got on it. But it was a
baby and bathwater situation, and the industry has been a bit slow to
get off it, even though the circumstances have changed.
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