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Is my heel dragging the snow?



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 22nd 06, 04:30 PM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
Mike M. Miskulin
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Posts: 71
Default Is my heel dragging the snow?

"clarv02" wrote in oups.com:

It was only in the steeper, deeper snow that this happened. After the
deeper stuff, I just glided along with normal feeling turns.


probably poor technique as per your later description of
the board you would have to have a very high edge angle to drag
and if you were riding like that you probably wouldn't be asking
us questions here

Have a mate watch you from behind and then in front when
you are on a steeper trail.. you probably aren't angulating
at all and thats fine on easy stuff but harder to get away
with on steeper terrain. You could also be pushing the
board away from you which is something people tend to do
on heeledge.
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  #12  
Old December 23rd 06, 01:01 PM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
[email protected]
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Posts: 41
Default Is my heel dragging the snow?


Bob F wrote:
"clarv02" wrote in message
ups.com...
Trad, you may be right. I've been boarding for 2 years and feel that my
skill has increased quite a bit. I can make turns on the easier black
diamonds for example. It does seem like at the beginning of the new
year, I start learning over to a certain degree. Maybe that's all this
is. What would be your suggestion for proper technique in my turns?


Try to learn to initiate turns by twisting the front of the board
so that the edge at the front of the board releases and begins
to slide downhill into the turn while the rear edge is still engaged
the other way. You can see the effect by standing on your board
on the flat. Push down on the front toe while lifting up on the back
toe. You will see the board twist. Then, on a mild slope, traverse
the slope on your heel edge, then push your front toe down while
holding your rear toe up the same as you did on the flat. The board
will start to turn all by itself. Don't apply any twist with your arms or
body. Just wait. The board will turn to point downhill. As it nears
the fall line, then stop lifting the rear toe and gradually push it down
until you are turning on the toe edge.

Reverse the edges for heel turns. Toe traverse, Lower front heel, turn
begins. As the turn continues, lower the rear heel edge, and you
are turning on the heel edge.

Done correctly, you should be keeping your body (shoulders and hips)
aligned with your feet. Don't let your body open up to the front as you
turn. Turn your head more to see ahead, not your body.
Don't try to lead the turn with your arms or body. Initiate it from the
feet as described. You will learn to actually steer the board into the
turn, rather than sliding the board into the turn by pushing it with your
feet.

There is more to add. Finding a good instructor can make a huge
difference in your riding abilities and constistancy. I improved
dramatically when I learned the right way to initiate turns after
being basically self taught. I still benefit constantly from having
quality instructors observe and comment on my riding. That is
the biggest benefit of being an instructor.

Bob



I would strongly disagree with the above advice. Telling someone who
is having problems on heelside turns to try to initiate turns by
pushing down on the board with the toes on one foot, while going the
other way with the opposite foot to make the board twist is just going
to make it more complicated and difficult for them to get it right.
I've never heard an instructor give this advice to anyone. Initiating
turns without falling down doesn't require any special technique. Nor
have I had to use this techinque to make a turn myself.

I agree with the advice to take a lesson. An instructor can likely see
what you're doing wrong and point you in the right direction.

  #13  
Old December 23rd 06, 03:36 PM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
clarv02
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Is my heel dragging the snow?

I think it was a combination of both - too much heel overhang and poor
technique. I do also agree with getting a lesson or two this year. I've
actually had instruction for the last two years as I was part of a
volunteer junior ski program here in Reno, called Sky Tavern Junior Ski
Program. But we're not participating in that program this year and my
daughter and I have season passes to a nearby resort, where I plan to
get more instruction.

Ironically, now my heelside is very strong, and now my toeside is a
little shaky. I went up yesterday morning for 4 runs. After reading
these posts and others from another thread, I realized I wasn't getting
low enough in the turns. So I started doing this and also powering out
of the turns and my heelside improved dramatically. Then I noticed my
toeside being not so great. It seems like, even shifting weight to the
front of the board, I can't seem to get low in the toeside turn. It
certainly was a much better day - only my second of this season.

I'm going to decrease the angle of my front binding. I had increased it
to about 12 degrees, a little bit more than I've had for the past two
years. So I'm going to go back down to about 9 degrees and see how that
feels on the toeside.

Thanks to everyone for their opinions.


Mike M. Miskulin wrote:
"clarv02" wrote in oups.com:

It was only in the steeper, deeper snow that this happened. After the
deeper stuff, I just glided along with normal feeling turns.


probably poor technique as per your later description of
the board you would have to have a very high edge angle to drag
and if you were riding like that you probably wouldn't be asking
us questions here

Have a mate watch you from behind and then in front when
you are on a steeper trail.. you probably aren't angulating
at all and thats fine on easy stuff but harder to get away
with on steeper terrain. You could also be pushing the
board away from you which is something people tend to do
on heeledge.


  #15  
Old December 25th 06, 02:01 AM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
Bob F
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,296
Default Is my heel dragging the snow?


"Champ" wrote in message
...
On 23 Dec 2006 05:01:29 -0800, wrote:


Bob F wrote:


Try to learn to initiate turns by twisting the front of the board
so that the edge at the front of the board releases and begins
to slide downhill into the turn while the rear edge is still engaged
the other way.


I would strongly disagree with the above advice. Telling someone who
is having problems on heelside turns to try to initiate turns by
pushing down on the board with the toes on one foot, while going the
other way with the opposite foot to make the board twist is just going
to make it more complicated and difficult for them to get it right.
I've never heard an instructor give this advice to anyone. Initiating
turns without falling down doesn't require any special technique. Nor
have I had to use this techinque to make a turn myself.


It's an old teaching technique from the early days of snowboarding. I
remember hearing it in the early 90s.


It is the technique that I am taught to teach by the PSIA. It is also the
technique I teach my students for their very first turn. It really works.
I have never been shown a better way to initiate turns for beginners.

I really wonder what others are teaching if these comments are the case.
Any help here?

Bob


  #16  
Old December 25th 06, 02:04 AM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
Bob F
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,296
Default Is my heel dragging the snow?


"clarv02" wrote in message
ps.com...
I think it was a combination of both - too much heel overhang and poor
technique. I do also agree with getting a lesson or two this year. I've
actually had instruction for the last two years as I was part of a
volunteer junior ski program here in Reno, called Sky Tavern Junior Ski
Program. But we're not participating in that program this year and my
daughter and I have season passes to a nearby resort, where I plan to
get more instruction.

Ironically, now my heelside is very strong, and now my toeside is a
little shaky. I went up yesterday morning for 4 runs. After reading
these posts and others from another thread, I realized I wasn't getting
low enough in the turns. So I started doing this and also powering out
of the turns and my heelside improved dramatically. Then I noticed my
toeside being not so great. It seems like, even shifting weight to the
front of the board, I can't seem to get low in the toeside turn. It
certainly was a much better day - only my second of this season.

I'm going to decrease the angle of my front binding. I had increased it
to about 12 degrees, a little bit more than I've had for the past two
years. So I'm going to go back down to about 9 degrees and see how that
feels on the toeside.


Arch your back when on toeside. You'll feel the difference.

Bob


  #17  
Old December 25th 06, 12:38 PM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 41
Default Is my heel dragging the snow?


Bob F wrote:
"Champ" wrote in message
...
On 23 Dec 2006 05:01:29 -0800, wrote:


Bob F wrote:


Try to learn to initiate turns by twisting the front of the board
so that the edge at the front of the board releases and begins
to slide downhill into the turn while the rear edge is still engaged
the other way.


I would strongly disagree with the above advice. Telling someone who
is having problems on heelside turns to try to initiate turns by
pushing down on the board with the toes on one foot, while going the
other way with the opposite foot to make the board twist is just going
to make it more complicated and difficult for them to get it right.
I've never heard an instructor give this advice to anyone. Initiating
turns without falling down doesn't require any special technique. Nor
have I had to use this techinque to make a turn myself.


It's an old teaching technique from the early days of snowboarding. I
remember hearing it in the early 90s.


It is the technique that I am taught to teach by the PSIA. It is also the
technique I teach my students for their very first turn. It really works.
I have never been shown a better way to initiate turns for beginners.

I really wonder what others are teaching if these comments are the case.
Any help here?

Bob



In the US, I was taught to initiate a toeside turn by keeping weight on
the front foot, knees slightly bent, rotate shoulders in direction of
turn and look in direction of turn, while applying pressure on the toes
of both feet, and lessening pressure on heels For heelside, same
process, but apply pressure with the heels.

If I had to think about rotating one foot in the opposite direction to
try to twist the board, I don't think I ever would have learned.
Also, the closer you follow this technique, the closer you are to
carving, as opposed to sliding the board around. Just had a buddy take
lessons here in the US and he was taught the same technique.

  #18  
Old December 25th 06, 10:19 PM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
Bob F
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,296
Default Is my heel dragging the snow?


wrote in message
ups.com...

Bob F wrote:
"Champ" wrote in message
...
On 23 Dec 2006 05:01:29 -0800, wrote:


Bob F wrote:

Try to learn to initiate turns by twisting the front of the board
so that the edge at the front of the board releases and begins
to slide downhill into the turn while the rear edge is still

engaged
the other way.

I would strongly disagree with the above advice. Telling someone

who
is having problems on heelside turns to try to initiate turns by
pushing down on the board with the toes on one foot, while going the
other way with the opposite foot to make the board twist is just

going
to make it more complicated and difficult for them to get it right.
I've never heard an instructor give this advice to anyone.

Initiating
turns without falling down doesn't require any special technique.

Nor
have I had to use this techinque to make a turn myself.

It's an old teaching technique from the early days of snowboarding. I
remember hearing it in the early 90s.


It is the technique that I am taught to teach by the PSIA. It is also

the
technique I teach my students for their very first turn. It really

works.
I have never been shown a better way to initiate turns for beginners.

I really wonder what others are teaching if these comments are the case.
Any help here?

Bob



In the US, I was taught to initiate a toeside turn by keeping weight on
the front foot, knees slightly bent, rotate shoulders in direction of
turn and look in direction of turn, while applying pressure on the toes
of both feet, and lessening pressure on heels For heelside, same
process, but apply pressure with the heels.

If I had to think about rotating one foot in the opposite direction to
try to twist the board, I don't think I ever would have learned.
Also, the closer you follow this technique, the closer you are to
carving, as opposed to sliding the board around. Just had a buddy take
lessons here in the US and he was taught the same technique.


I was taught to twist my body to start turns in my first lesson 15 or 20
years ago. When I started really trying to board a few years ago after
not trying it again for many years, that was the first thing I was told
to quit doing.

In reality, steering the board by twisting it is less of a sliding motion
than
rotating your body to get it to turn. The board turns as if by itself. It
enters the turn with no skidding of the back of the board. The front of
the board turns in the direction you want to go, rather than the back of
the board sliding the other way to point the board in the new direction.
The transition to a clean carve happens very easy in this turn since
no skidding was used to start the turn..

This technique works well, especially at low speed. Sure, at high speeds
anyone can change edges evenly to make quick non-skidded turns
without pushing the tail of the board around. Using board torsion allows
smooth turns without skidding even at near zero speeds. Focusing on
it when riding switch makes switch riding much more comfortable. You
just don't catch edges and fall as much.

I will say again - I teach this technique to all my beginning students. It
works very well for them. When it doesn't seem to work for them, they
usually have their bindings too close together on the board. Move the
bindings, and all of a sudden it works. The students that learn this way
to turn are visably smoother riders. They also seem to suffer many fewer
traumatic falls during the learning process.

If you like the way you ride - fine. If you want to try something a lot
of riders have never discovered that might improve your performance,
you might want to try this. I have no vested interest other than liking
to help people ride better. And I am always interested in any new
concepts that I can learn, which is one of the reasons I visit R.S.S.
Keep them coming.

Bob





  #19  
Old December 26th 06, 12:54 PM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 41
Default Is my heel dragging the snow?


Bob F wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

Bob F wrote:
"Champ" wrote in message
...
On 23 Dec 2006 05:01:29 -0800, wrote:


Bob F wrote:

Try to learn to initiate turns by twisting the front of the board
so that the edge at the front of the board releases and begins
to slide downhill into the turn while the rear edge is still

engaged
the other way.

I would strongly disagree with the above advice. Telling someone

who
is having problems on heelside turns to try to initiate turns by
pushing down on the board with the toes on one foot, while going the
other way with the opposite foot to make the board twist is just

going
to make it more complicated and difficult for them to get it right.
I've never heard an instructor give this advice to anyone.

Initiating
turns without falling down doesn't require any special technique.

Nor
have I had to use this techinque to make a turn myself.

It's an old teaching technique from the early days of snowboarding. I
remember hearing it in the early 90s.

It is the technique that I am taught to teach by the PSIA. It is also

the
technique I teach my students for their very first turn. It really

works.
I have never been shown a better way to initiate turns for beginners.

I really wonder what others are teaching if these comments are the case.
Any help here?

Bob



In the US, I was taught to initiate a toeside turn by keeping weight on
the front foot, knees slightly bent, rotate shoulders in direction of
turn and look in direction of turn, while applying pressure on the toes
of both feet, and lessening pressure on heels For heelside, same
process, but apply pressure with the heels.

If I had to think about rotating one foot in the opposite direction to
try to twist the board, I don't think I ever would have learned.
Also, the closer you follow this technique, the closer you are to
carving, as opposed to sliding the board around. Just had a buddy take
lessons here in the US and he was taught the same technique.


I was taught to twist my body to start turns in my first lesson 15 or 20
years ago. When I started really trying to board a few years ago after
not trying it again for many years, that was the first thing I was told
to quit doing.

In reality, steering the board by twisting it is less of a sliding motion
than
rotating your body to get it to turn. The board turns as if by itself. It
enters the turn with no skidding of the back of the board. The front of
the board turns in the direction you want to go, rather than the back of
the board sliding the other way to point the board in the new direction.
The transition to a clean carve happens very easy in this turn since
no skidding was used to start the turn..

This technique works well, especially at low speed. Sure, at high speeds
anyone can change edges evenly to make quick non-skidded turns
without pushing the tail of the board around. Using board torsion allows
smooth turns without skidding even at near zero speeds. Focusing on
it when riding switch makes switch riding much more comfortable. You
just don't catch edges and fall as much.

I will say again - I teach this technique to all my beginning students. It
works very well for them. When it doesn't seem to work for them, they
usually have their bindings too close together on the board. Move the
bindings, and all of a sudden it works. The students that learn this way
to turn are visably smoother riders. They also seem to suffer many fewer
traumatic falls during the learning process.

If you like the way you ride - fine. If you want to try something a lot
of riders have never discovered that might improve your performance,
you might want to try this. I have no vested interest other than liking
to help people ride better. And I am always interested in any new
concepts that I can learn, which is one of the reasons I visit R.S.S.
Keep them coming.

Bob



I'd be interested in hearing from others on here if:

1 - When learning to ride, they were told to make turns by twisting the
board by moving the feet in opposite direction

2 - If they now use this technique in their own riding.


My answer is no to both.

  #20  
Old December 26th 06, 01:12 PM posted to rec.skiing.snowboard
David Taylor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Is my heel dragging the snow?

On 2006-12-26, wrote:
Bob F wrote:

This technique works well, especially at low speed. Sure, at high speeds
anyone can change edges evenly to make quick non-skidded turns
without pushing the tail of the board around. Using board torsion allows
smooth turns without skidding even at near zero speeds. Focusing on
it when riding switch makes switch riding much more comfortable. You
just don't catch edges and fall as much.

I will say again - I teach this technique to all my beginning students. It
works very well for them. When it doesn't seem to work for them, they
usually have their bindings too close together on the board. Move the
bindings, and all of a sudden it works. The students that learn this way
to turn are visably smoother riders. They also seem to suffer many fewer
traumatic falls during the learning process.

If you like the way you ride - fine. If you want to try something a lot
of riders have never discovered that might improve your performance,
you might want to try this. I have no vested interest other than liking
to help people ride better. And I am always interested in any new
concepts that I can learn, which is one of the reasons I visit R.S.S.
Keep them coming.


I'd be interested in hearing from others on here if:

1 - When learning to ride, they were told to make turns by twisting the
board by moving the feet in opposite direction


Yes.

2 - If they now use this technique in their own riding.


Yes

My answer is no to both.


I'd be interested to know if you actually understand the technique being
discussed. It's not so much moving the feet in opposite directions.
You start with pressure on the heel edge on both feet. Then release
the pressure on the heel edge on your front foot, and apply pressure
to the toe edge on your front foot. As the board begins to turn, do
the same with your back foot. All you're doing is turning with the front
of the board first.

--
David Taylor
 




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