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trying to determine a good board for my needs



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 31st 05, 11:00 PM
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Default trying to determine a good board for my needs

I'm a new boarder (I've only been a couple times), but I think I know
what sort of riding I want to do. I'm more interested in freeride then
anything else. I am a rather large fellow: 6'3" 220lb and I got some
solomon boots 11 1/2. My weight floats a bit depending on how busy I am
at work, but I generally range between 190-220lb.

So I'm trying to determine what boards I should try to demo.

thanks,

--Matt

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  #2  
Old April 1st 05, 02:47 AM
lonerider
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Default


wrote:
I'm a new boarder (I've only been a couple times), but I think I know
what sort of riding I want to do. I'm more interested in freeride

then
anything else. I am a rather large fellow: 6'3" 220lb and I got some
solomon boots 11 1/2. My weight floats a bit depending on how busy I

am
at work, but I generally range between 190-220lb.

So I'm trying to determine what boards I should try to demo.

thanks,

--Matt


Hey Matt... based on what you've said - I'm going to get right to the
point and suggest that you get a Donek Wide or Sasquatch snowboard in
the 160-165cm range. Donek is a very small Colorado-based company that
turns out exceptionally good high-end snowboards. If you do a search
online on this newsgroup, you will see it mentioned a LOT of times by
myself and several other people who have ridden their boards. All of us
try to promote the company because "word of mouth" and a few team
freestyle riders and alpine racers are their only form of
advertisement. You can check them out at
www.donek.com.

The Incline/Wide/Sasquatch line is one of the best freeride boards in
existence. Handmade with high quality materials, it has an excellent
shape for carving freeriding, with a stiffness that will easily support
your weight even up to 220 lbs. If you want to zip in through the
trees, I would recommend getting the shorter/less stiff models like a
162 Sasquatch, definitely get the Sasquatch (the wideset model for "big
feet") or at least a Wide 165 as well if you ride deep powder a lot as
it will float better (you are borderline in your boot size so you could
do either one).

By now you probably are like... "whoa, this thing probably costs a
fortune" but no, the Wide sell for $370 and the Sasquatch goes for
$380. The difference being that since they tend to make the board when
you order it, they don't have much inventory around so you aren't
likely to find one on a spring clearance sale. , but I recently saw a
used Wide 165 on sale on Catek.com's forum - you might be able to score
one for even cheaper.

======= From Catek.com forum
=============================================
For the ultimate soft boot setup, I am considering selling Donek 165
Wide, Black tope sheet and Bottom with Red Logo, one chip in Topsheet,
perfect base. Let me kn ow if there is any interest. No pictures until
I get back in a few days-

================================================== ========================

More info:
There are a ton of other companies, boards, etc... but I'm trying to
keep this post relatively short - ask me if you have questions or want
more board suggestions. For more information you can search this
newsgroup using
www.dejanews.com. You can also search www.freecarve.com
as well. Some people here like to frequent an alpine snowboard
community at www.bomberonline.com, but I can tell you what the people
there will likely suggest - get hardboots, Bomber TD2 bindings, and a
BX/All-Mtn board. Now while I think this is a perfectly good
suggestion, I'm not to keen on how some of them driving it into your
skull like a railroad spike (I'm exaggerating). Of course if what I
just said intrigues you AND you've have sever footpain from
softboots... then by all means check out the site... there is a a TON
of information and people there waiting for you.

  #3  
Old April 1st 05, 02:55 AM
lonerider
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:
I'm a new boarder (I've only been a couple times), but I think I know
what sort of riding I want to do. I'm more interested in freeride

then
anything else. I am a rather large fellow: 6'3" 220lb and I got some
solomon boots 11 1/2. My weight floats a bit depending on how busy I

am
at work, but I generally range between 190-220lb.

So I'm trying to determine what boards I should try to demo.

thanks,

--Matt


Oh, I forgot to mention a KEY thing I love about Donek. They are very
confidant that you will like their boards and really care if you enjoy
your board that they offer two great programs. The first is there FREE
demo program, yep... you just call them up (you will likely talk to
owner/maker Sean Martin or his wife), give them your address, and what
board you would like to demo (if you don't know what you want, Sean
will offer suggestions and lots of information)... and they will mail
it to your for free. You ride it to see if you like it, have it waxed,
and send it back. You pay for shipping back - so it isn't free free,
but still I wish other companies did that. On top of that... if you buy
a board and decide you don't like it within 30 days of receiving it,
send it back and they will refund you the board AND the cost of
shipping. It's that type of customer service ontop of a great board for
a good price that makes Donek the first company many people suggest.

Again I'm not paid by Donek (I don't even get free stickers from them),
and there are several other board manufacturers that are great as
well... which I will again mention if you ask (but not here to save
space as you can see I'm a bit wordy in my postings).

  #4  
Old April 1st 05, 04:05 AM
Mike T
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Posts: n/a
Default

It's that type of customer service ontop of a great board for
a good price that makes Donek the first company many people suggest.


I'll second lonerider's Donek suggestion and for mostly the same reasons.

Their Freeride series is IMHO a great choice for a heavier rider such as
yourself, the boards will support your weight and handle crisply. I weigh
195 and ride a Wide 161 with soft boots and an Axis 172 with hard boots, and
I have an old Incline 168 that I use as a rock board. Just great stuff all
around.

My first Donek's stability helped me gain the confidence to push through the
"Terminal Intermediate" barrier and start riding a lot better. It also was
my "gateway board" in to carving and later hardbooting.

Mike T



  #5  
Old April 1st 05, 05:08 AM
Dave
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Default


Mike T wrote:

I'll second lonerider's Donek suggestion and for mostly the same

reasons.

Count me in to... I'm 6'2", 210, with a size 10.5 foot. I ride the
Donek Wide 165 and really like it for powder, bombing groomers, and
general freeriding with moguls and a few jumps thrown in here and
there.

-Dave

  #6  
Old April 1st 05, 08:15 AM
Matt
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Default

There certainly seems to be a vocal group of supporters here. I am
feeling sorely tempted. I wish there was more of this season left so I
could do the try it to see if I like it. I guess it will depend on if
I the snow holds up a bit longer. Thanks for the advice guys.

--Matt

  #7  
Old April 2nd 05, 06:33 PM
Dave
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Default


Matt wrote:
There certainly seems to be a vocal group of supporters here. I am
feeling sorely tempted.


One thing to keep in mind that it's a pretty stiff board and is in its
element when cruising at a decent clip. As a beginner, I think it
might challenge you a bit at first as compared to the (likely floppy)
rental boards, but in the end you'll like it.

BTW, I learned about 8 years ago on a K2 Eldorado 169 (I weighed about
40 lbs more than my current 210) and have stayed with stiff, freeride
boards since then (a Ride Timeless '67 and then the Donek Wide '65).

The Donek Phoenix might be more your style, though the Wide is a great
deal at $100 less than the Phoenix. My advice would be to perhaps find
a board that suits you on closeout this year, or wait until next season
and see if you can demo a Donek. Personally, I like to buy my gear at
the start of the season. There are some modest early-season deals and
you get to enjoy your gear right then and there. End of season deals
can be great, but availability of size and models really dwindle and
you don't get to really use the gear until next season. My two cents.

-Dave

  #8  
Old April 11th 05, 09:50 AM
Matt
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Default

So the questions just keep coming for me, I am seriously considering
ordering the Donek, but I have few more questions. My boots are Solomon
symbios. This is a pretty soft boot, but I got them because they are
really confortable. I have recently demoed a couple of boards: 163
Burton custom, and the 163 burton canyon. The custom felt like it
might have been a bit to soft, and the canyon definitely seemed a bit
loose, but I was happy with the fact that I could easily push out the
tail to absorb some speed. I was also frustrated by the fact that I
was really nervous riding flat because both of these boards seemed to
easily get shifted when which caused me a few nasty falls. I'm hoping
you guys can help me figure out whether or not the Donek will work for
me.

My second question is about binding. Currently, I can't rock up onto
my board when I fall heel side, and If I have to sit down to strap in
then I need to flip over to toe side so I can stand up. These things
make the flow like binding systems really attractive to me, but I
wonder if they will work well with my boots, and possible board choice
of Donek? If not the flows what do people recommend? I find all the
information a bit to much, and very contradictory. So please if you
can help me answer my questions I would be very grateful.

thanks,

--Matt

  #9  
Old April 11th 05, 05:47 PM
lonerider
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Default

Hi again Matt. I will be giving you a lot of information very quickly,
so feel free to ask questions should you get confused. I will summarize
my points to start and then follow up with some of background
information that guides my opinions. I can't really solve the
conflicting advice thing, but for the most part everything I sat is
well accepted and a moderate viewpoint.

Boots
- soft-flex boots maybe comfortable like slippers, but aren't good for
performance like hiking boots
- stiff-flex boots give you performance, but you need spend much more
time finding a boot that fits you perfectly, otherwise it won't be very
comfortable
- always size down for boots, do not settle for an "ok" fit
- you don't need to go to super-stiff boots immediately, but you should
consider moving up to a medium stiffness boot soon

Board
- you need a board of sufficient stiffness for you weight
- longer boards within a particular board model line tend to be stiffer

- Burton/Forum models are very soft, so for you, you would need to ride
the longer models available (longer models are difficult for novices to
handle)
- Salomon, Donek, and Palmer have stiffer models made for bigger,
heavier riders
- stiffer models tend to be slightly less forgiving of bad technique,
so you don't want to go too stiff either when starting out.
- that being said, some of your complaints are unrelated to the board
and more just because you are still learning

Bindings
- again, you main complaints with your bindings (about strapping in
heelside and getting up on toeside) are because you are still learning.
- while I wouldn't get them to cover a personal techinque flaw, FLOW
bindings are more convenient and a lot of people like them
- other bindings bands that have a good price/performance ratio at
Ride, Salomon and Technine
- bring your boots to the store make sure you boots fit well (Salomon
boots occasionally don't mesh well with Burton bindings I've found).


Matt wrote:
So the questions just keep coming for me, I am seriously considering
ordering the Donek, but I have few more questions. My boots are

Solomon
symbios. This is a pretty soft boot, but I got them because they are
really confortable. I have recently demoed a couple of boards: 163


I like the stiff models in the Salomon lines (Dialogue, Synapse,
Malamute) and I haven't tried the Simbio, but I know it's on the lower
end of the line. Yes they are very comfortable, but it is very easy to
be comfortable in a soft-flexing boot, it's like wearing slippers...
but you don't want to run a marathon or go hiking in slippers. The
problem is that in order for a stiff boot to feel comfortable, it has
to fit you perfectly, otherwise it will pinch and pressure you all over
the place.

Stiffer boots tend to be more expensive, so I understand that you might
not want to buy them when you are starting out... but they are the most
important piece of equipment - high performing bindings and boards are
worthless if you have this super floppy, super loose pair of comfy
boots where you foot and shin can slide around inside without that
energy being transferred to the rest of the gear. As a compromise, I
just suggest that each time you buy a new pair of boots, slowly get a
higher end, stiffer pair of boots (that fit perfectly!) until you are
at least in the medium-high stiffness range. Super-stiff boots give you
more performance, but there a tradeoff point where you just might not
want that stiff a boot. However, you would really need to search and
try hard to find a boot that I would say would be too stiff in general
(especially at your size and weight). Snowboard boots are made for
snowboarding, not for walking, be prepared to walk a little funny in
them, if you can walk completely normally in a pair of boots (instead
of slightly on your heelsde), they aren't going to treat you well when
snowboarding.

A good fitting boot trumphs all other concerns - if the boot doesn't
fit you calf, ankle, instep, toes just right... you are going to pay
for it on the slopes (more so with stiff boots). So when you do decide
to upgrade your boots, much sure that you have the smallest boot you
can physically wear that is still not uncomfortable. This is because
the boot liners will expand half to fullsize after 5-7 days of use as
it sort of molds to your foot. US shoe sizes vary a lot so have you
foot measured in centimeters as most snowboard boots will use this
length as their sizing index. This will often leave you with a much
smaller size boot (like 1-2 size smaller) than your sneaker size. The
boots downright cozy, your toes touching the tips of the boots, but not
curling like a glove with no truly uncomfortable pressure points.
Salomon, ThirtyTwo, and some other brands make boots with heat-moldable
liners that are great for this.


Burton custom, and the 163 burton canyon. The custom felt like it
might have been a bit to soft, and the canyon definitely seemed a bit
loose, but I was happy with the fact that I could easily push out the
tail to absorb some speed. I was also frustrated by the fact that I
was really nervous riding flat because both of these boards seemed to
easily get shifted when which caused me a few nasty falls. I'm

hoping
you guys can help me figure out whether or not the Donek will work

for
me.


Yes, the Custom is a soft board and Canyon is wide and not very
torsionally rigid. I wouldn't recommend either for you... actually. I
wouldn't recommend ANYTHING in the Burton lineup and you are just
beyond the maximum recommended weight for all of their boards except
for the Baron 172 and the Triumph 173 and then you are at the very
limit of the range (check the Burton website). Longer board tend to be
stiffer within a particular model line (the 170 is stiffer than the
165, etc) but because Burton makes soft boards in general, you have to
go really long to get the proper stiffness to support your weight. With
other brands and other board models, you can ride a shorter board if it
is stiffer. Palmer, Salomon, and Donek stick out in my mind as stiffer
boards but there are other brands too (Prior can stiffen up a board,
but they make really expensive boards that rarely go on sale). Burton
and Forum (now owned by Burton I think) make very soft boards. The
boards you demo'd a really designed for someone 50 lbs lighter than
you. Sure they felt really easy to push around because again they were
so soft, but you aren't going very fast yet and once you get better
they are not going to be able to support you weight in a turn (it's
going to chatter and flap and bounce you around). Not to mention the
fact that at 50 lbs over the designed weight you are much more likely
to snap the board if you hit a bump or a rut and crash (think of trying
to cut a burnt steak with a plastic knife). Back to what you said about
being able to push the tail around. It is important to be able to do it
occasionally to control speed, but you don't want to be doing it every
turn (i.e. turing by pushing your back leg out left and right) - as you
get better you will learn to do this less. I'm not quite sure what you
were saying when you said that the snowboards "get easily shifted"
riding flat. If you mean they drift in a random direction when you are
trying to stay flat and pointed down the fall line, I am pretty sure
that is mainly because you are still learning and have quite gotten the
hang of flatboarding (it is rather hard to do starting out). Having
beveled base edges will help a lot in keeping you from catching you
edge while flatboarding (don't worry about base edges right now).

Again, you don't have to buy a super-stiff board immediately, but if
you want to progress beyond a novice level... you are definitely going
to have to get something stiffer than a Burton Custom/Canyon 163.
Whether you do that now or later is up to you. Some people like to buy
a board they can grow into, others like to buy a cheap beginnner board
and then switch in 1 year be reselling and buying again. I will
definitely warn you that a stiffer board like the Donek Wide 165 will
not be as "forgiving" for really bad technique (like excessive
man-handling of the board by pushing out the tail) and you will have to
deal with the bevelling the edges (just take it to a shop and ask then
to sharpen your edges with 1 degree base / 1 degree side, which is the
general standard) even though 98% of all snowboarder have no clue about
edge bevels. I would suggest the Wide 160 to start out so you are on
the higher end (but still not on the maximum limit) of the weight range
so it will be more forgiving. The Donek Phoenix 163W would actually be
the perfect choice for you (noticebly softer and more forgiving while
still stiffer than any Burton at the same length) but I hesitate to
recommend it becuase it is $100 more ($475). It is one of the best
designed boards and most versatile I've ever ridden though. AGAIN if
you buy a Donek, take it to a shop and have the edges bevelled,
otherwise it will toss you to the snow hard a lot (any board with
unbevelled edges will do this, but Donek is the only company that
doesn't bevel their edges at the factory).

My second question is about binding. Currently, I can't rock up onto
my board when I fall heel side, and If I have to sit down to strap in
then I need to flip over to toe side so I can stand up. These things
make the flow like binding systems really attractive to me, but I
wonder if they will work well with my boots, and possible board

choice
of Donek? If not the flows what do people recommend? I find all the
information a bit to much, and very contradictory. So please if you
can help me answer my questions I would be very grateful.


First, I would like to say that you will soon learn how to push
yourself up from your heelside, so I wouldn't buy gear just to be able
to get into your bindings from the toeside edge. That being said, FLOWS
are very convenient and hte higher ends are pretty good bindings and I
don't see any major problems with them and Donek boards. I think FLOW
should work decently with Salomons as they don't have a big chunky heel
(and get caught on the highback), but you should really just go to a
store with your boots and test if yourself. The K2 Cinch has a similar
idea, but allow you to strap in OR step-in. The Cinch's plastic is a
bit cheap and flexy though (not very good performance, questionable
durability). Other bindings that are good are Ride, Salomon, and
Technine - Burton and Drake make good high-end bindings, but they tend
to be very expensive and the cheaper models are not very good at all.

  #10  
Old April 11th 05, 11:42 PM
Matt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

lonerider wrote:

I like the stiff models in the Salomon lines (Dialogue, Synapse,
Malamute) and I haven't tried the Simbio, but I know it's on the

lower
end of the line. Yes they are very comfortable, but it is very easy

to
be comfortable in a soft-flexing boot, it's like wearing slippers...
but you don't want to run a marathon or go hiking in slippers. The
problem is that in order for a stiff boot to feel comfortable, it has
to fit you perfectly, otherwise it will pinch and pressure you all

over
the place.

Stiffer boots tend to be more expensive, so I understand that you

might
not want to buy them when you are starting out... but they are the

most
important piece of equipment - high performing bindings and boards

are
worthless if you have this super floppy, super loose pair of comfy
boots where you foot and shin can slide around inside without that
energy being transferred to the rest of the gear. As a compromise, I
just suggest that each time you buy a new pair of boots, slowly get a
higher end, stiffer pair of boots (that fit perfectly!) until you are
at least in the medium-high stiffness range. Super-stiff boots give

you
more performance, but there a tradeoff point where you just might not
want that stiff a boot. However, you would really need to search and
try hard to find a boot that I would say would be too stiff in

general
(especially at your size and weight). Snowboard boots are made for
snowboarding, not for walking, be prepared to walk a little funny in
them, if you can walk completely normally in a pair of boots (instead
of slightly on your heelsde), they aren't going to treat you well

when
snowboarding.


Well the good news here is that while this boot is soft it also fits
pretty tightly. I have no slide inside the boot, and I definitely have
to walk heel first. They do have a fair amount of flex to them though.
I'm hoping these will last me through next season so I can then really
evaluate what I want. I chose these because I had zero heel lift with
them.



Yes, the Custom is a soft board and Canyon is wide and not very
torsionally rigid. I wouldn't recommend either for you... actually. I
wouldn't recommend ANYTHING in the Burton lineup and you are just
beyond the maximum recommended weight for all of their boards except
for the Baron 172 and the Triumph 173 and then you are at the very
limit of the range (check the Burton website). Longer board tend to

be
stiffer within a particular model line (the 170 is stiffer than the
165, etc) but because Burton makes soft boards in general, you have

to
go really long to get the proper stiffness to support your weight.

With
other brands and other board models, you can ride a shorter board if

it
is stiffer. Palmer, Salomon, and Donek stick out in my mind as

stiffer
boards but there are other brands too (Prior can stiffen up a board,
but they make really expensive boards that rarely go on sale). Burton
and Forum (now owned by Burton I think) make very soft boards. The
boards you demo'd a really designed for someone 50 lbs lighter than
you. Sure they felt really easy to push around because again they

were
so soft, but you aren't going very fast yet and once you get better
they are not going to be able to support you weight in a turn (it's
going to chatter and flap and bounce you around). Not to mention the
fact that at 50 lbs over the designed weight you are much more likely
to snap the board if you hit a bump or a rut and crash (think of

trying
to cut a burnt steak with a plastic knife). Back to what you said

about
being able to push the tail around. It is important to be able to do

it
occasionally to control speed, but you don't want to be doing it

every
turn (i.e. turing by pushing your back leg out left and right) - as

you
get better you will learn to do this less. I'm not quite sure what

you
were saying when you said that the snowboards "get easily shifted"
riding flat. If you mean they drift in a random direction when you

are
trying to stay flat and pointed down the fall line, I am pretty sure
that is mainly because you are still learning and have quite gotten

the
hang of flatboarding (it is rather hard to do starting out). Having
beveled base edges will help a lot in keeping you from catching you
edge while flatboarding (don't worry about base edges right now).


So as far as the back leg thing. I am still pretty nervous about going
fast because the few times it has happened I have either gotten into a
nasty wobble, and eventually I hang an edge and go down hard. So I have
taken to side sliding a good bit to avoid gaining to much speed. I
realize this is a total crutch, but I don't how else to control my
speed. I assume there are other better ways once I progress, but I want
to make sure I am not getting a board that will prevent me from slowing
down when I need to. If the answer is "yes but it will take a bit more
effort" then I am down with that. I am more than willing to have to
work harder to get the board to go where I want it to. I just need to
have some way to effectively control how fast I go down the mountain.
Otherwise, I do all my actual turning with my front leg. I hope this
clarifies my concerns somewhat.


Again, you don't have to buy a super-stiff board immediately, but if
you want to progress beyond a novice level... you are definitely

going
to have to get something stiffer than a Burton Custom/Canyon 163.
Whether you do that now or later is up to you. Some people like to

buy
a board they can grow into, others like to buy a cheap beginnner

board
and then switch in 1 year be reselling and buying again. I will
definitely warn you that a stiffer board like the Donek Wide 165 will
not be as "forgiving" for really bad technique (like excessive
man-handling of the board by pushing out the tail) and you will have

to
deal with the bevelling the edges (just take it to a shop and ask

then
to sharpen your edges with 1 degree base / 1 degree side, which is

the
general standard) even though 98% of all snowboarder have no clue

about
edge bevels. I would suggest the Wide 160 to start out so you are on
the higher end (but still not on the maximum limit) of the weight

range
so it will be more forgiving. The Donek Phoenix 163W would actually

be
the perfect choice for you (noticebly softer and more forgiving while
still stiffer than any Burton at the same length) but I hesitate to
recommend it becuase it is $100 more ($475). It is one of the best
designed boards and most versatile I've ever ridden though. AGAIN if
you buy a Donek, take it to a shop and have the edges bevelled,
otherwise it will toss you to the snow hard a lot (any board with
unbevelled edges will do this, but Donek is the only company that
doesn't bevel their edges at the factory).


So you recomend the Phoenix. Do you think this is a good long term
board that I can grow into? Is it just a good all around mountain board
(I really don't care about tricks)? I know people were recommending the
sasquach(sp?) earlier. Can you compare and contrast the two boards for
me so I have a better idea about the pros/cons of the boards?



First, I would like to say that you will soon learn how to push
yourself up from your heelside, so I wouldn't buy gear just to be

able
to get into your bindings from the toeside edge. That being said,

FLOWS
are very convenient and hte higher ends are pretty good bindings and

I
don't see any major problems with them and Donek boards. I think FLOW
should work decently with Salomons as they don't have a big chunky

heel
(and get caught on the highback), but you should really just go to a
store with your boots and test if yourself. The K2 Cinch has a

similar
idea, but allow you to strap in OR step-in. The Cinch's plastic is a
bit cheap and flexy though (not very good performance, questionable
durability). Other bindings that are good are Ride, Salomon, and
Technine - Burton and Drake make good high-end bindings, but they

tend
to be very expensive and the cheaper models are not very good at all.


So I have solomon boots, and I imagine solomon bindings go well with
those, can you recommend some good bindings from flow, ride, and
solomon, with the obvious caveat that I need to make sure they fit my
boots? I'm just trying to figure out what I should be looking at.

Thanks again for all the help. This group is amazingly friendly.

--Matt

 




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Skate technique USST two cents Pete Vordenberg Nordic Skiing 52 January 22nd 04 03:31 PM
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